TRANSCRIPTS_HEARING_10-6-2017 attachment from msg 13018 154pm


CODE ENFORCEMENT
SARASOTA COUNTY, FLORIDA
CASE NOS.: CC-17-3606 AND CC-17-3606(A)
SARASOTA COUNTY, FLORIDA,
Petitioner
vs.
JAMES CHITWOOD,
Respondent.
_________________________________/
and
SARASOTA COUNTY, FLORIDA,
Petitioner
vs.
SPIRO PAIZES
Respondent.
_________________________________/
CODE ENFORCEMENT HEARING SPECIAL MAGISTRATE MEG WITTMER
OCTOBER 6, 2017 9:00 a.m. CC-17-3690(A)
Sarasota County Administration Center 1660 Ringling Boulevard
Sarasota, Florida TRANSCRIBED FROM CDS BY:
Lisa G. Moore, Court Reporter 12th Judicial Circuit Court Approved
Notary Public, State of Florida at Large
APPEARANCES

COUNSEL FOR PETITIONER:
RESPONDENTS:
ALSO PRESENT:
SCOTT T. BOSSARD, ASST. COUNTY ATTORNEY
Office of the County Attorney 1660 Ringling Boulevard, Floor 2
Sarasota, Florida 34236-6808 sbossard@scgov.net
James Chitwood, Pro Se Spiro Paizes,
Pro Se
Guy McCauley, Harvey Ayers

EXHIBITS CASE NO. CC-17-3606

  • Contract
  • Agency Agreement
  • Florida Statute
  • Contract
  • Business Card
  • Work Comp Exempt - Chitwood
  • Work Comp Exempt - Paizes
  • DBPR Document - Chitwood
  • CASE NO. CC-17-3606(A)
  • Contract
  • Check 74 74
  • Business Card
  • Work Comp Exempt - Chitwood
  • Work Comp Exempt - Paizes
  • DBPR Document - Chitwood
  • DBPR Document - Paizes
  • Declaratory Statements
  • CASE NO. CC-17-3690
  • Contract
  • Aerial Photographs
  • Composite - Photographs

(Transcribed from CD) CODE ENFORCEMENT HEARING
OCTOBER 6, 2017
THE COURT: Okay. Good morning, everyone.
Sorry for the delay. There's a lot going on as
you can see in the room. It is now 9:11 on Friday, October 6th,
2017. My name is Meg Wittmer and I am the special magistrate for the docket this morning.
All those intending to testify please stand and raise your right hand at this time to be
sworn by the clerk.

THE CLERK: Do you swear or affirm on your
own (unintelligible) that the evidence and testimony you're about to present is true?
SPEAKERS: I do.

THE COURT: Thank you. Please be seated. First case on the docket this morning is
Case Number CP-17-135, Sarasota County vs.
Siesta Dunes Condominium Association, Inc.
MR. BOSSARD: Your Honor, before we begin, I've -- there should be a binder with --
THE COURT: (Unintelligible).
MR. BOSSARD: -- the County's exhibits that
you'll be able to follow along with as we make
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the presentation.
THE COURT: So Mr. Bossard, before we get
started, and I'll have the respondents introduce
themselves in a moment, you know, time is of the
essence today.
MR. BOSSARD: Yes.
THE COURT: There are a lot of cases on
this docket. I'm going to really hold everyone
in the room to the ordinance that states that
any case that may go beyond 30 minutes needs to
be specially set.
So, you know, I will allow everybody a
30-minute period, time period because there have
been no requests, as far as I am aware, that
have been filed five days before this proceeding
requesting additional time.
MR. BOSSARD: That's correct, Your Honor.
THE COURT: So with that -- with that
understanding, we'll do what we can in the 30
minutes. If time beyond 30 minutes is
necessary, we'll deal with it at that time to
find an opportunity that we can reschedule.
Fair enough?
MR. BOSSARD: Absolutely.
THE COURT: Okay.

CASE CC-17-3606
THE COURT: The next case on the docket is Case Number CC-17-3606, Sarasota County vs.
James Chitwood. Are you Mr. Chitwood?

MR. CHITWOOD: Yes, ma'am.

THE COURT: Have you been sworn?
MR. CHITWOOD: I have.
THE COURT: Okay. Great. So you're appealing a citation, correct?
MR. CHITWOOD: Yes, ma'am. I would like to seek (unintelligible) counsel though
(unintelligible).
THE COURT: Mr. Ayers, -- so you're actually asking for a continuance is what you're
asking for? Can you pull that mic a little closer to you.
MR. CHITWOOD: Yes, ma'am. THE COURT: It's not on. That's the
problem. Now talk.
MR. CHITWOOD: Yes, ma'am.
THE COURT: Much better. Okay. Mr. Ayers, Mr. Bossard, Mr. Chitwood is
requesting a continuance so he can seek counsel.
Do you have an objection?
MR. BOSSARD: Yes.
THE COURT: You do?
MR. BOSSARD: They've initiated the appeal and that would -- that would -- you would think
part and parcel to that process would be securing counsel to bring the appeal.
The citation at issue was issued in August, so there's been over a month where the appellant
in this case to secure counsel and really is not showing -- giving any reason why that hasn't
happened in that period of time.

THE COURT: Mr. Chitwood, your response to the County.
MR. CHITWOOD: Well, I also feel like this is going to take longer than 30 minutes.
THE COURT: Well, again, I'll grant you the 30 minutes. If it goes beyond that, I would --
I would look to find an additional time for you. But the fact that it may go beyond 30 minutes
isn't going to excuse --

MR. CHITWOOD: I understand.
THE COURT: -- you from presenting your case.
So based on argument before me I'm going todeny the request to continue. Let's move
forward with your -- with your request.

MR. CHITWOOD: Okay.
THE COURT: So you can start, it's your
appeal. So you want to tell me why you feel
that this citation is not applicable?
MR. CHITWOOD: Yes. First of all, I was
representing the contractor, and even in the
citation it says that I was representing the
licensed contractor. And at no point did I say
I was a licensed contractor nor did I act in any
way in any type of repairs or nor did I receive
any type of compensation from the customer. So
I never actually said that I was a licensed
contractor.
THE COURT: So maybe the best way to start
this is to have Mr. Ayers give me a brief
summary of what occurred and why the County
filed the citation. Can we do that?
MR. AYERS: Yes, ma'am.
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. AYERS: My name is Harvey Ayers. I'm a
building investigator with Sarasota County and I
have been sworn.
This case involves Mr. Chitwood, and that
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on June the 8th, 2017 he represented himself as
an employee or as a licensed contractor through
Florida Home Improvement Services entering into
a contract with the homeowner of 4424 Meadow
Creek Circle, Sarasota, Florida, a Gerard Ripo.
In that contract it was -- the contract was
written for a new roof. Mr. Chitwood is not --
and Mr. Chitwood signed the contract himself, is
not a licensed roofing contractor or a licensed
contractor, took a check for the company Florida
Home Improvement Services which is a licensed
roofing company, they do hold a license.
But Mr. Chitwood is not an employee or a
direct employee and is not allowed to write
contracts or accept that because he's not --
he's workers' comp exempt, is his own company as
a subcontractor, so he is not able to enter into
contracts with people for that work.
THE COURT: So that (unintelligible) to
somebody else?
MR. AYERS: He accepted the check to the
contractor. He represented himself as an
employee of the contractor. He is not allowed
to do that.
He also purports himself with business
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cards of his own company with the license
numbers of the other company that is licensed.
So he's purporting himself with his own company
name listing their business license numbers for
the state of Florida. He can't do that here.
THE COURT: Okay. So you've spoken to this
parent -- this -- this contractor?
MR. AYERS: He's -- he's sitting here with
him.
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. AYERS: He's also been cited for aiding
in another separate case.
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. AYERS: But the homeowner has -- was --
did contract with Mr. Chitwood, had all dealings
with Mr. Chitwood, and from conversations with
the homeowner believed Mr. Chitwood was the
licensed contractor. Not until later, you know,
understood that there was actually somebody
else --
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. AYERS: -- involved. The homeowner is
present here, along with the Department of
Business and Professional Regulations
investigator who can also explain better to what
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is required for the licensed contractor to enter
into that contract.
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. AYERS: So that's kind of maybe an
overview of where we are. He was --
Mr. Chitwood was issued a citation, delivered by
certified mail regarding unlicensed contracting,
and we are here today because he is appealing
the citation.
THE COURT: Okay. So I sort of understand
the County's position.
Now, why don't you take me back and explain
your version of the story. Sir, can you please
state your name for the record.
MR. PAIZES: Is this on?
SPEAKER: Yeah.
MR. PAIZES: Good morning. My name is
Spiro Paizes. I'm a certified building
contractor with the state of Florida.
THE COURT: Spell your last name for me.
MR. PAIZES: I'm sorry. Spiro, S-P-I-R-O.
THE COURT: Uh-huh.
MR. PAIZES: Last name is Paizes, P as in
Peter, A-I, Z as in zebra, E-S.
THE COURT: Thank you, Mr. Paizes. Okay.
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MR. PAIZES: Might I say something?
THE COURT: And you have been sworn?
MR. PAIZES: Yes. May I say something real
quick?
THE COURT: Sure.
MR. PAIZES: Okay. These cases between --
with Mr. Chitwood and I, and the other cases,
are probably going to take an hour and a half.
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. PAIZES: And I have -- I have so much
information to go through, and I don't want to
take up your time, and respect what you've said
earlier that you said you'd like to speed these
along.
So I'm requesting, in order for fairness
for Mr. Chitwood who has asked for legal counsel
as well, that we have a fair chance to present
our case and defend ourselves accordingly.
THE COURT: Understood. And I understand
your time request. However, there's a --
there's a -- there's a code.
MR. PAIZES: Okay.
THE COURT: There's an ordinance out there.
If you had looked at the ordinance, you would
have learned that those types of cases that
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require a significant amount of time are
supposed to follow certain protocol to come
before me.
So if you know your case is going to take
more than 30 minutes, which is allocated under
that ordinance, you are request -- you are
required to file a request for extended time so
we can specially set time five days, five
business days prior to this hearing.
MR. PAIZES: Right, I (unintelligible).
THE COURT: It was your request to have
this hearing. You've known about this -- this
citation. As Mr. Bossard has indicated, I
believe it was August, since August they've
known about the citation.
And, you know, you can't expect now to come
to me and plead that you, in all fairness, you
need time. It's your obligation to look at the
code and understand the rules if you're going to
come and appeal before me.
MR. PAIZES: Right, I'm --
THE COURT: Okay?
MR. PAIZES: I'm going by what you said
earlier that said if your case is going to last
30 minutes or longer.
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THE COURT: And again, I understand, but I
don't -- you know --
MR. PAIZES: Okay. I'll respect that.
THE COURT: In all fairness, don't come to
me and say that, you know, it's unfair for you
not to be able to present your case right now.
There are rules and there's protocol, you just
didn't follow them.
MR. PAIZES: Right.
THE COURT: So under -- you know, with what
he's shared with us, are you still willing to go
forward with the 30 minutes, or what would you
like to do at this point?
MR. BOSSARD: Let me talk to the client
first.
Yeah, our client indicates we want to go
forward because we have -- the homeowners are
present, a representative of DBPR is present as
well, they're here now.
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. BOSSARD: Yeah, they've traveled to be
here, they've taken time to be here, they should
be heard from.
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. BOSSARD: I anticipate that there may
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be some relevance issues with what's going to be
presented --
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. BOSSARD: -- this morning, so I think
we'll be able to stay within the guidelines.
THE COURT: Okay. I'm going to continue to
watch the time.
Moana, just go ahead and keep your eye on
the time so -- and kind of cue us in when
we're -- okay?
So at this point we need to hear from the
witnesses in the hearing, but I'm going to go
ahead and allow the respondent to state his
case, his side of the case and let's see where
we go. Okay?
MR. CHITWOOD: Okay.
THE COURT: All right.
MR. CHITWOOD: So I was told by the
licensed contractor to go to Jerry Ripo's
residence and to have them sign a contract
between the customer and the licensed
contractor, who is Florida Home Improvement
Services, so I was there representing the
contractor.
At no time did the customer think that I
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was the one that they were going to be paying,
nor did they think that I was the one holding
the license.
And on my business cards I -- it states
that I am a site supervisor for the company and
not -- it is not my license. It only says my
name, not my company. And whenever the contract
was signed, the check was written to the
licensed contractor, which I have right here, if
you'd like to see that.
THE COURT: We can begin to mark exhibits,
if you so chose. It's, you know, your choice,
not mine, if you want to admit an exhibit or
not.
MR. CHITWOOD: Yeah, I would like to at
this --
THE COURT: Okay. So we've got
Respondent's Exhibit 1 as marked.
(Respondent's Exhibit 1 marked for
identification.)
THE COURT: So let's start with 1.
Mr. Bossard, do you need to look at 1?
MR. BOSSARD: I think it looks like our --
one of our exhibits, so I think it's the same
thing.
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SPEAKER: Yeah, I have a copy of it also.
SPEAKER: (Unintelligible).
SPEAKER: It's the same one.
MR. BOSSARD: No objection.
THE COURT: So there's just one.
SPEAKER: (Unintelligible).
THE COURT: So is it a composite? He's got
three pieces of paper marked as 1. Are we doing
a composite or are we going to mark them 1, 2,
and 3? Let's take a --
MR. CHITWOOD: It's the same.
MR. PAIZES: If I may, I was instructed by
board of records to bring three copies: One for
the County --
THE COURT: It's the same -- it's the
same --
MR. PAIZES: Correct.
THE COURT: -- piece of paper? Okay.
So just go ahead and -- you can give one to
Mr. Bossard and then give one to me, please.
Thank you. Thank you.
MR. BOSSARD: Again, no objection, Your
Honor.
MR. CHITWOOD: And if you notice, even in
the citation, it says James Chitwood who
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represented Florida Home Improvement Services.
THE COURT: What am I looking at?
MR. CHITWOOD: On the actual citation.
SPEAKER: You've got to give her a copy.
THE COURT: Oh, on the citation, not on the
exhibit. Okay.
What am I looking at on the citation?
MR. CHITWOOD: On the -- on the top part
where it says Violation Description.
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. CHITWOOD: It actually even states that
I was representing Florida Home Improvement
Services.
MR. PAIZES: We blew it up so it's easier
to read.
THE COURT: I see it.
MR. PAIZES: Okay.
THE COURT: I'm good.
MR. BOSSARD: It's the citation itself. No
objection.
THE COURT: That's fine. I don't need it.
Thank you though. It's not necessary, it's
already in evidence.
MR. CHITWOOD: I was only acting on what
the licensed contractor told me to do, and at no
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time I was ever stating that I was a licensed
contractor nor that I would be performing work
that needed a license.
THE COURT: Okay. Is there anything else
you'd like to --
MR. CHITWOOD: I have an agency agreement
with the contractor.
THE COURT: Do you want to provide the
agreement?
MR. CHITWOOD: Yes, I will.
MR. PAIZES: Shall we mark these as
exhibits?
THE COURT: Yes, please.
MR. PAIZES: Are we at Number 2?
THE COURT: Yes, sir.
(Respondent's Exhibit 2 marked for
identification.)
THE COURT: Okay. I already have an issue
with this because it was entered into on Monday,
November 7, 2017, which isn't even -- it's a
date that is in the future. So why are we
looking at an agency agreement --
MR. PAIZES: It actually was the 16th -- it
was 2016. That's a typo, Your Honor.
THE COURT: I mean, this is --
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MR. BOSSARD: I'm going to object, Your
Honor. One, the signatures aren't notarized.
The witnesses aren't here that allegedly
verified the signatures. And I'm being informed
by my client there's a County-approved agent
authorization form that this is not. So there
are (unintelligible) agreement dubious in our
eyes.
MR. PAIZES: May I respond?
THE COURT: Sure.
MR. PAIZES: Okay. I do have a notarized
one as well.
THE COURT: Where is it?
MR. PAIZES: So if the -- excuse me, I
don't know who this man is. Can he identify
himself?
THE COURT: Which man?
MR. PAIZES: The man to my far right, I
don't know who he is.
THE COURT: That's Mr. Bossard, he's a
County -- Assistant County Attorney.
MR. PAIZES: Okay. Just -- just so we
know.
I have a notarized one as well. So if
those witnesses aren't here that were supposed
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to be here that signed the document -- but
they're up in Clearwater and couldn't make it,
but I do have a notarized one signed by a
notary.
THE COURT: Where is it? Do you have it?
MR. PAIZES: Right here. Shall I mark
it --
THE COURT: Can you let Mr. Bossard look at
it.
MR. PAIZES: -- Number 3.
THE COURT: You don't need to mark, just
let Mr. Bossard take a look at the notarized
version.
All right, gentlemen, as you know, the
formal rules of evidence don't apply. It goes
to the weight of the evidence. So, you know, it
is a notarized document, as far as I am hearing,
unless you object to that.
MR. BOSSARD: The only objection, I still
say, Your Honor, it's not the County's agency
authorization form.
THE COURT: Understood. Again, I'm not --
I'm going to overrule your objection, but --
based on what I said, its formal rules of
evidence don't apply, the witnesses don't have
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to be here, but I understand what -- what you're
saying with respect to the procedure as far as
the County is concerned.
But the document will come into evidence
and stand on its own, again going to the weight
of the evidence.
So Respondent's Exhibit 2 is admitted.
So go ahead.
(Respondent's Exhibit 2 admitted.)
MR. PAIZES: I'm quite confused regarding
the agency, the authorized agent form that the
County has. The agent authorization form at the
County only allows persons that I designate to
pull a permit, walk into the County, pull a
permit on my behalf everywhere in the state that
I work.
It does not allow an individual to sign
contracts, to go to purchase supplies, to act on
my behalf, to take my dog to the vet, or any of
those other issues.
So I think -- with all due respect I think
the County has a little bit of an issue here
that an authorized agent at the County is simply
a document for someone walking in, getting a
permit, and leaving.
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More recently I was told by the Sarasota
County Building Department that only my
employees are allowed to pull permits. However,
when I spoke to a building official, the
building official says no.
Guy McCauley, who I believe is on this side
over here, who is the deputy building official,
has instructed Jenna Miller who sent me an
e-mail and say your authorized agents must be
your employees.
Yet I've called no less than a dozen
building departments and the Department of
Business Professional Regulation who've made a
statement that your grandmother, if she's an
authorized agent, at any building department
throughout the state, can walk in and get a
permit.
So I've also asked Sarasota County Building
Department how do they have authorized agents
that are subcontractors that are basically
called permitting services? I was told by Jenna
Miller that's different. So how is it
different?
Then I was accused of breaking the Florida
Statutes about a month ago regarding the same
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issue, that authorized agents have to be my
employee.
I requested -- under Chapter 119 of the
Florida Statutes, I requested in writing to an
e-mail to her, which will be -- I've requested
her emails from the -- actually I've requested a
lot of things, that what law am I breaking?
I got an argument from the employee at the
County which works for Mr. McCauley who said,
"I'm not going to sit here and argue with you.
You broke the law, and that's it."
So I said to her, "Well, as a government
employee you're required -- if I indeed did
break the Florida Statutes or break the law,
you're required to tell me what it is for
several reasons: Number one, I have a right to
it, and, number two, you can't just make an
accusation like that."
THE COURT: Okay. So let's -- first of
all, we're going to stick to the issue before us
which is with respect to Mr. Chitwood.
MR. PAIZES: My apologies.
THE COURT: Not your issues. Okay?
MR. PAIZES: Yes.
THE COURT: This isn't going to be a stage
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for you to air your disputes.
There's rules that -- that -- there's
ordinances and statutes that govern these types
of issues so that a homeowner or an individual
of the community can have some assurances that
when someone shows up to do work at their house,
that they have gone through the proper protocol
and they have -- or they have the proper
licensure or they are connected properly with
the company that does, in fact, have the
expertise to do the work.
You know, the fact that -- you know,
Mr. Chitwood can go -- doesn't need a -- a --
you have an agency agreement, and he can go take
your dog to the vet has nothing to do with this.
Okay?
What we're concerned about is the work that
he's representing that he is going to do, that
he is, in fact, qualified or has the proper
relation -- business relationship to represent
that he is qualified to do the work. So that's
where we're at in this, on this issue right now.
So I'm going to ask the County to respond
with what has -- the issue that's been brought
forward is that they're claiming that you don't
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have to be an employee, so let's address that
issue right now. Okay?
MR. BOSSARD: Guy McCauley can probably
speak to that issue better.
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. BOSSARD: He's on our witness list.
MR. McCAULEY: Good morning.
THE COURT: Good morning. Mr. McCauley,
can you please state your name for the record
and whether you've been sworn.
MR. McCAULEY: Guy McCauley, deputy
building official, Sarasota County, and I have
been sworn.
THE COURT: Okay. So can you address the
issue now that's pending before us with respect
to business relationships, agency relationships,
employee relationships and what is required
under the code when they are engaged by a
homeowner or a member of the public to do work
governed by the building code.
MR. McCAULEY: In order to enter into a
contract with somebody, you would either have to
be a direct employee of the licensee, you would
have to be a contractor yourself, as I don't
believe he is a licensed contractor himself,
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Mr. Chitwood.
Are you?
MR. CHITWOOD: No, I'm not, but I --
THE COURT: Okay. So this idea of agency
relationship, let's discuss that with respect to
entering into a contract. Okay?
MR. McCAULEY: An agent cannot enter into a
contract. They can only do the paperwork, like
come to the department and apply for a permit.
They cannot enter into a contract with the
property owner.
THE COURT: So let's get more specific.
Can an agent go to a homeowner or person seeking
the work, --
MR. McCAULEY: No.
THE COURT: -- quote a price, take a check?
MR. McCAULEY: No.
THE COURT: Okay. Is there an ordinance or
statute that governs that rule?
MR. BOSSARD: Your Honor, I have -- these
are a couple of declaratory statements from the
State's Construction Industry Licensing Board
along with a case that discusses the persuasive
value that they have, if I may.
THE COURT: Has the respondent seen it? Do
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you have a copy for them?
MR. BOSSARD: I do believe I have a copy
for them.
THE COURT: You do have a copy?
MR. BOSSARD: Yes, I do.
THE COURT: Okay. So I'm not going to take
the time to read this, Mr. Bossard. Do you want
to sum -- give me a summary of what it says.
MR. BOSSARD: Very quickly, Your Honor.
Grab my copy myself here.
The first statement, which is the
declaratory of Mr. Paul Delvecchio, indicates
that -- it's on page 2 of 4, "The board hereby
issues a declaratory statement that construction
management as a service that oversees the
management of the construction activities on a
given project is the exclusive purview of a
licensed contractor which speaks to the issue of
(unintelligible) not be a licensed contractor."
The other dec statement which -- petition
from the City of Port St. Lucie, "The board
hereby issues a declaratory statement that a
general building contractor cannot subcontract
from the licensed contractor at issue."
And the other case I cited is simply what
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the residential or persuasive value of these
types of statements are, which is the idea of a
deferential standard for the party that's
administering these statutes and these dec
statements that are issued for a particular case
(unintelligible) broader application to other --
other issues that are similar.
THE COURT: So essentially the rule of law
of what I'm hearing from you is that a
contractor cannot subcontract out his -- his
rights and his -- what's the word I'm looking
for -- his essential licensure to allow someone
else to do it, correct?
MR. BOSSARD: Correct.
THE COURT: Is that what you're telling me?
MR. AYERS: He would have to be a direct
employee, a lease employee, or licensed
themself.
MR. PAIZES: I object.
THE COURT: What's your objection?
MR. PAIZES: The objection is that the
Florida Statutes right here say something
completely different to what they're saying.
May I submit this as evidence?
THE COURT: Well, go ahead and let the
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County look -- go ahead and let the County look
at it first.
MR. PAIZES: Let me know when I can
comment, please.
MR. CHITWOOD: And no where does the
contract say that I personally entered into the
contract with the customer.
MR. PAIZES: I'll get to that in a minute.
THE COURT: Any response to the stat- --
I'm going to let the respondent talk if that's
okay.
MR. BOSSARD: Yeah, that's fine.
THE COURT: Go ahead.
MR. PAIZES: Okay. Senate -- per the 2014
Florida Statutes as stated in the Senate Bill
Number 2014 and 2012, it states specifically,
and I'll go through it, and then the center part
is the part that's relevant.
It says, "A person must be certified or
registered in order to engage in the business of
contracting in this state. However, for the
purposes of complying with the provisions of
this chapter, a subcontractor who is not
certified or registered may perform construction
work under the supervision of a person who is
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certified or registered."
And then on the -- I'm sorry. On the
second page, I actually have the Florida
Statute, which is 49.113, sub paragraph 2, which
says exactly -- exactly the same thing. If I
may submit this?
THE COURT: Yes. Is it marked?
MR. PAIZES: I think we're at Number 4 or
3?
THE COURT: 3.
MR. AYERS: You have to read the rest of
the paragraph.
THE COURT: I don't know where it's coming
from. So I mean I don't even know what chapter,
I don't know what it's referring to. I don't
know anything. Until someone can explain to me
where this is coming from, I -- you know,
again --
MR. PAIZES: May I explain where this is
coming from, Your Honor?
THE COURT: Not -- I mean more technically,
what chapter is this? What --
MR. PAIZES: Chapter 4 --
THE COURT: -- 49 --
MR. PAIZES: It's on the second page.
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THE COURT: What section of -- hold on a
second.
SPEAKER: Is it (unintelligible)?
MR. AYERS: 113.
THE COURT: Mr. Bossard, do you have a
response to this -- the --
MR. BOSSARD: Yes, I do Your, Honor.
THE COURT: Go ahead.
MR. BOSSARD: Couple issues here I think.
First, in the highlight section, I'm
looking at this page here.
THE COURT: I've actually got the statute.
MR. BOSSARD: The issue, the first issue is
that Mr. Chitwood was acting as a subcontractor
here. He's acting as an agent of the
contractor, which is a different thing all
together.
He's rep -- he's acting as a representative
of the contractor, not as the sub, at least
certainly not in the presentation he's making to
the homeowner that he's entering into the
contract with on behalf of the contractor. So
he's not a subcontractor, which kind of takes
him out of this all together.
Beyond that it talks about performing
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(unintelligible) under the supervision of a
person who is certified. There's been no
evidence presented here that he was being
supervised by Mr. Paizes at the time I think
this was going on.
And then if you go a little further into
that section as well, it talks about the
subcontractor, and for argument sake we'll call
him that at this point, being supervised or
engaging construction work that would require
license as a contractor. He's not a licensed
contractor.
So there's a number of avenues here that
this does not apply here in this situation.
MR. PAIZES: I don't agree.
MR. BOSSARD: You can't be -- you can't be
a subcontractor one moment and then an agent for
the contractor the next. You're one or the
other. You've got to pick one and run with
that.
MR. PAIZES: If I may.
The Sarasota County School Board has agency
agreements with the Sarasota Police -- Sheriff's
Office. There are agency agreements throughout
the United States, and it's a critical factor --
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MR. BOSSARD: Objection.
THE COURT: That's --
MR. BOSSARD: What everybody else does is
irrelevant.
THE COURT: -- apply to the Florida
Building Code.
MR. PAIZES: Okay.
THE COURT: It's a totally different
situation.
MR. PAIZES: Okay. If I may, I'll move on
to something else. Okay.
THE COURT: No, we can't just keep moving
on to all different things. We're going to
have -- we need to stick with the issues right
now.
So the issue that we're dealing with right
now is whether or not an agency agreement or
an -- a principal agent relationship applies to
this situation --
MR. PAIZES: No.
THE COURT: -- and the building code. So
that's where we're at right now.
MR. PAIZES: Okay. May I address that?
THE COURT: So --
MR. PAIZES: I'm sorry.
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THE COURT: Let me finish.
MR. PAIZES: Okay.
THE COURT: So from what I am understanding
and what I'm hearing, your relationship that you
are representing right now, this agency
relationship, is invalid with respect to the
agreement and the contract that was entered into
between you and the homeowner. That is what I'm
hearing right now and that's what I'm
understanding right now.
In the interest of time, I want to go ahead
and call these witnesses because we are running
out of time and then let's see where we're at.
Okay?
So what are -- what witness would you like
to call right now?
MR. BOSSARD: Mr. Teal from DBPR.
THE COURT: Okay. Thank you. Let's go
ahead and call these witnesses and then see
where we're at.
Sir, can you state your name for the
record.
MR. TEAL: William Teal, Department of
Business and Professional Regulation.
THE COURT: Mr. Teal, you've been sworn?
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MR. TEAL: Yes. THE COURT: Thank you. Mr. Bossard, do you have questions?
EXAMINATION
BY MR. BOSSARD: Q Mr. Teal, if you could, I'll just give you the
floor. You've heard the issue we've been discussing
WILLIAM TEAL, a witness, being previously sworn/affirmed, was
called as examined and testified as follows:
regarding
A Correct.
the status, this agency status --
Q -- and how it relates. Could you express, on behalf of your agency,
what -- is that a consistent view of what we've -- what you have?
A Yes. Q Could you elaborate on that a little bit? A Yes. Mr. Chitwood actually signed the
contract, unlicensed contracting. He is not licensed. We do have a certificate of non-licensure presented in one of the exhibits that the State provided. And he was issued a notice to cease and desist this morning acting as a -- as a general contractor.
and the act of doing so it's actually
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He is not -- was not an employee at the time,
was not a W-2 employee, so therefore it -- his actions
are consistent with unlicensed contracting.
MR. BOSSARD: That's all, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Okay. Do you have any
questions of this witness?
MR. CHITWOOD: Well, I was -- I was told by
the contractor to sign this contract. The
homeowner was aware that I was on my way,
that -- because the homeowner spoke to the
contractor and -- I never spoke about a scope of
work with the customer.
I was only there to have the customer sign
the contract and that was it. Not once did I
even discuss the work that was going to be done.
That was -- the deal was sold --
THE COURT: Let's hear -- let's hear from
the contractor [sic].
MR. BOSSARD: Okay. That's whose next
anyway.
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. BOSSARD: Jerry Ripo.
MR. CHITWOOD: He's not the customer.
THE COURT: I thought this was the
homeowner, I thought this was the customer.
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MR. BOSSARD: It is.
MR. CHITWOOD: No, Ida Ripo is.
THE COURT: Okay. I don't know who this
is. I don't know who --
SPEAKER: He's (unintelligible) contract --
he's the homeowner.
THE COURT: Where's the -- who signed the
check? Who's Ida Ripo?
MR. RIPO: That's my mother. She's 91
years old.
THE COURT: That's your mother, okay.
SPEAKER: She signed the contract.
THE COURT: Okay.
SPEAKER: He signed the contract.
THE COURT: He signed the contract, okay.
So sir, go ahead and please state your name
for the record.
MR. RIPO: Gerard Ripo.
THE COURT: Can you come a little closer to
the mic.
MR. RIPO: Gerard Ripo.
THE COURT: Thank you. And have you been
sworn?
MR. RIPO: Yeah.
THE COURT: Yes?
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MR. RIPO: Yes.
THE COURT: Okay. Thank you.
Mr. Bossard.
GERARD RIPO called as a witness, being previously sworn/affirmed, was
examined and testified as follows: EXAMINATION
BY MR. BOSSARD: Q Mr. Ripo, I'm going to show you what's been
marked as Government Exhibit Number 1. Do you recognize the document that you're looking at?
A Yes. Q What is it? A It's a contract for reroofing my mom's house. Q And in the upper portion of the document, do
you see the indication where it says who the owner of the property is?
A They put my name on because I was the one that contact- -- contacted the roofing company.
Q Then at the bottom do you recognize the signatures at the bottom?
A That's my mom's signature.
Q Were you present at the time this contract was entered into?
A Yes.
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Q Okay. Did you have any conversation with Mr. Chitwood at the time that the contract was entered into?
A Just that he was going to be doing the roofing and he was here to sign the contract so we can get the work done.
Q Did you have any reason to believe that Mr. Chitwood was licensed or not licensed?
A I just assumed that he was part of the business and everything was up and right the way they were doing everything.
THE COURT: So just point of clarification, the respondent did, in fact, state he was going to be doing the work?
THE WITNESS: Yeah, he was doing a job on another house, and he came over and signed a contract so we can get our work done.
THE COURT: Thank you.
Do you have any questions
MR. CHITWOOD: Yes.
EXAMINATION
BY MR. CHITWOOD: Q Did I tell you that I was
for this witness?
representing
Mr. Paizes? A No, I just assumed when you gave me the
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contract that that's what it was. Q So you're assuming that I was there
representing Mr. Paizes then? A Yeah, the Florida Home Improvement Company. Q Right. And whenever I told you I was going to
do the work, I said I work for Sarasota Construction Remodeling, correct?
A Well, I don't remember that. I just knew that you were doing the work and that you came with the contract, so I would assume that that's your relationship with him.
THE COURT: So wait a second, Mr. Chitwood. Did you just ask the witness whether or not you said that you worked for the contractor? Is that what you -- was that the question you just asked him?
MR. CHITWOOD: I believe so. I asked him -- I told him I work for the contractor. THE COURT: So you told him you were an
employee? MR. CHITWOOD: I was doing work for the
contractor. THE COURT: You worked for were the words
that I heard you say.
MR. CHITWOOD: Doing work for the
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contractor. I am paid as a subcontractor.
MR. PAIZES: May I say something?
THE COURT: No. Okay.
MR. BOSSARD: Do you have anything else?
THE COURT: Do you have anything else?
MR. BOSSARD: I did if you didn't have
anything else.
THE COURT: Yes.
RE-EXAMINATION
BY MR. BOSSARD:
Q Sir, looking at -- this has been marked as
Government Exhibit 3. Have you seen that before?
A Yeah, that's the business card that I had.
Q And what -- what company is named on that?
A Sarasota Construction Remodeling Company.
Q Okay. And the contract that you signed, what
company is that with?
A Florida Home Improvement Services,
Incorporated.
MR. BOSSARD: That's all I have, Your
Honor.
THE COURT: Mr. Chitwood, do you have any
other questions of this witness?
MR. CHITWOOD: It also states Sarasota
Construction Remodeling on the contract?
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SPEAKER: As a d/b/a.
MR. CHITWOOD: As a d/b/a name.
MR. BOSSARD: I'm going to turn the floor
over to Mr. Ayers to present the --
THE COURT: We're out of time so we need to
figure out what we're going to do now.
MR. AYERS: I can expedite this so we can
get the evidence in and then I think we're going
to be wrapped up on our side very quickly.
THE COURT: But they claim they have more
information to provide so.
MR. AYERS: I'm going to take about five
minutes probably maximum for our side.
THE COURT: But what are we going to do
with the respondents that still have more
information that they need to provide me? It
sounds like there's more.
Okay. Let me -- this is getting out of
hand in the sense that this case is against
Mr. Chitwood. It is not against you. Okay?
MR. PAIZES: Well, it is because there's a
second case that links directly to this.
THE COURT: This case is not against you.
MR. PAIZES: Okay.
THE COURT: You are not going to use this
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time as a platform to provide me with
information on your case. Okay? So I'm not
going to -- I've allowed you some latitude, but
right now it's getting abusive.
I need to hear from the respondent with
respect to the violation that is against him.
I'm not going to allow you to continue to talk
for him. Okay?
MR. BOSSARD: Your Honor, before Mr.
Ayers -- I understand the time constraints.
Does Mr. Chitwood have anything else he wants to
provide in support of his appeal at this point?
MR. CHITWOOD: Yes. All communications
were done between Mr. Paizes and the customer.
I was only there to sign the contract, and the
customer was aware of that.
THE COURT: So is that the only other
information you want to provide me with respect
to this particular violation?
SPEAKER: (Unintelligible) one second.
MR. CHITWOOD: One second. Let me look.
Okay. So it says --
MR. PAIZES: Read it first.
MR. CHITWOOD: "James Chitwood representing
Florida Home Improvement Services, Inc. entered
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into a contract with the owner of the property
located at 4424 Meadow Creek Circle, Sarasota,
Florida 34233.
"The contract for the work at the property
in the amount of $11,640 was written under
Florida Home Improvement Services, Inc. and all
payments for work at the property were to be
made to them also but contracted and collected
by James Chitwood who is not an employee nor
authorized agent.
"Paizes Spiro, owner and license holder for
Florida Home Improvement Services, was aware of
this contract and spoke with the homeowner
directing him to speak with James Chitwood."
MR. BOSSARD: Okay.
THE COURT: That's -- I mean you've
stated -- you've stated the County's case for
them, I mean, essentially is what you just did.
So what is -- I'm so confused, I don't
understand the argument. They just stated your
case saying that you entered into the contract.
So I -- I don't understand what you're trying to
tell me.
MR. CHITWOOD: It -- I was an authorized
agent for the contract.
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THE COURT: Again, you aren't an -- an
author- -- that relationship is not valid in
this case. The only way you can enter into a
contract is as an employee or under the
supervision of the licensed contractor.
That didn't occur here. There's no
evidence that that occurred here. The homeowner
himself stated that you said that you were going
to do the work. You said that you told him that
you were -- the words --
MR. BOSSARD: Worked for.
THE COURT: -- doing work --
MR. BOSSARD: For.
THE COURT: -- for the company. So that --
that to me suggests that you misrepresented your
position in this company.
MR. CHITWOOD: I told him I was the site
supervisor when I handed him my card for
Sarasota Construction and Remodeling.
THE COURT: You said we going to do the
work.
MR. CHITWOOD: Sarasota Construction and
Remodeling is going to do the work.
THE COURT: His words were, "we are going
to do the work." That was his testimony, his
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direct testimony.
MR. CHITWOOD: He -- he was aware that the
contract was between him and Mr. Paizes.
THE COURT: That is not his testimony.
MR. CHITWOOD: -- not between me --
THE COURT: His testimony was not that he
was aware. His testimony was that he assumed
you were an employee of the company.
MR. CHITWOOD: The contract even states
it's between Florida Home Improvement Services
and Mr. Ripo or Ida Ripo.
THE COURT: It can state that, but it was
the way that you entered into the contract and
you represented to him that you were an employee
of the company. That's where you fell out of
line with the -- with the ordinance and the
statute. Okay?
MR. CHITWOOD: What -- what was the statute
that stated that I couldn't do that in?
THE COURT: You gave me the statute itself.
We identified that you needed to be a
subcontractor. You're not a subcontractor.
There are significant --
MR. CHITWOOD: I am a subcontractor,
though, for the --
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THE COURT: No, you're not. You just said
you were an agent. So we've got two dec
statements as well as an ord- -- a case that
suggests that --
MR. BOSSARD: And remember also, if it's a
subcontractor, in this instance would have to be
licensed himself --
THE COURT: Exactly, you're not licensed as
a subcontractor. You're not a -- you've spent
the last 40 minutes telling me that you're an
agent. You're not a subcontractor.
MR. CHITWOOD: I can't be an agent and a
subcontractor, an agent for the company and a
subcontractor?
THE COURT: You've never represented that,
so no.
MR. CHITWOOD: I -- I would have had to
rep --
THE COURT: Are you a licensed
subcontractor?
MR. CHITWOOD: I have -- in Sunbiz I am a
subcontractor, yes.
THE COURT: You have represented for 40
minutes that you were an agent.
MR. CHITWOOD: Yes.
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THE COURT: You never once said you were a
subcontractor. You've never provided any
information showing that you are a qualified
certified licensed subcontractor. This is all
new now.
MR. CHITWOOD: I didn't know whether that
you couldn't be an agent and a subcontractor. I
thought I was an agent for the company working
as a subcontractor as well.
THE COURT: Right, and that's been the
testimony all along.
MR. CHITWOOD: Right, but I am a licensed
subcontractor through Sunbiz. Not licensed,
sorry, a certified subcontractor on Sunbiz.
THE COURT: You're not licensed --
MR. CHITWOOD: Not licensed.
THE COURT: Okay. All right. Now we've
got that clear.
MR. CHITWOOD: Forget the word "license."
THE COURT: All right. Is there anything
else I'm missing?
MR. AYERS: No, other than just maybe I can
wrap this up in two or three minutes --
THE COURT: Go ahead.
MR. AYERS: -- give you the exhibits that
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you need.
Harvey Ayers, Sarasota County Building
Department. Exhibit 1 is just to enter in so we
have it for the record, the contract that was
signed by Mr. Chitwood.
THE COURT: Is that in -- is it in
evidence?
MR. AYERS: Do we have -- the Government,
did they already put that in? I just want to
make sure.
SPEAKER: No, we didn't.
THE COURT: All right. So Government
Exhibit 1 is -- 1, we marked 1 once, though,
right, 1?
MR. AYERS: It will be Government Exhibit 1
for us.
MR. BOSSARD: We haven't entered it
(unintelligible).
THE COURT: Oh, sorry. Okay. So is there
any objection to the contract, I mean, we've
been referring to?
MR. AYERS: No.
THE COURT: Okay. Government Exhibit 1 is
admitted.
(Government Exhibit 1 admitted.)
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MR. AYERS: Government Exhibit 2 is a
photocopy provided by the homeowner of the
business card that Mr. Chitwood provided stating
Sarasota Remodeling and Construct -- or Sarasota
Construction and Remodeling Company and his site
supervisor.
The card itself lists his information and
then the license numbers, certified license
numbers for general contracting, roofing, and
mechanical for Mr. Spiro Paizes, and so he's
purporting a card that he's not a licensed
contractor.
THE COURT: Any objection to that?
MR. CHITWOOD: No, ma'am. No, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Government Exhibit 2 is
admitted.
(Government Exhibit 2 admitted.)
MR. AYERS: Government Exhibit 3 is from
Sunbiz-ness that he has a registered company and
that he is workers' comp exempt and that he
is -- has no employees and he only carries
workers' comp on himself, Mr. Chitwood.
THE COURT: Is there any objection to that?
MR. CHITWOOD: No, Your Honor.
MR. AYERS: Government Exhibit 3 --
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THE COURT: 3 is -- that was 3.
MR. AYERS: Yes.
Government Exhibit 4 is --
THE COURT: 3 admitted.
(Government Exhibit 3 admitted.)
MR. AYERS: -- is from the State Department
of Workers' Compensation that Mr. Spiro Paizes
is workers' comp exempt and has no employees --
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. AYERS: -- of himself -- other than
himself.
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. AYERS: And then Government Exhibit 5
is from the Department of Business Professional
Regulations just indicating that Mr. Chitwood is
not a licensed contractor, that he holds no
valid licenses at this time.
SPEAKER: Yes.
THE COURT: Any objection to those
exhibits?
MR. CHITWOOD: No.
THE COURT: So Government Exhibit 4 and
Government Exhibit 5 are admitted.
(Government Exhibits 4 and 5 admitted.)
MR. AYERS: Very quickly, Your Honor,
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Mr. Chitwood entered into a contract for
himself, whether he states he's an agent or a
subcontractor, he cannot do either of them
unless he's a direct employee of Mr. Spiro
Paizes to enter into and sign these contracts.
Mr. Paizes has no direct employees, carries
workers' comp on himself. Mr. Chitwood is not a
licensed contractor and cannot enter into these
contracts, sign these, or do the work unless he
is a direct employee, and he is not.
So we would be asking that the citation be
upheld at the $2,000 fine.
THE COURT: Okay. So Case Number
CC-17-3606, Sarasota County versus Edward --
James Edward Chitwood, I find, based on the
testimony and evidence presented today, that the
citation is, in fact, valid, therefore I'm
ordering that the respondent pay the civil
penalty of $2,000, plus a $10 recording fee.
The fine shall operate as a lien on all personal
and real property owned by the respondent.
Mr. Chitwood, you can see the clerk for
your paperwork.
The next case on the docket is Case Number
CC-17-3690, Sarasota County vs. Spiro Paizes.
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MR. PAIZES: Your Honor, if I may.
THE COURT: Yes.
MR. PAIZES: This is going to take a lot
longer than 30 minutes and I request a special
hearing.
MR. AYERS: (Unintelligible) same thing?
MR. PAIZES: I have -- I have exhibits on
top of exhibits. I'd like to make an opening
statement as well, so I request, with respect to
your comment earlier about timing, if we can
have a special hearing.
THE COURT: Okay. My thought right now is
to -- can we table this for a little while and
let me get through some of these other cases?
MR. BOSSARD: That would be fine.
THE COURT: You know, a lot time is being
monopolized by this right now.
MR. AYERS: Can I check with the homeowner
to make sure they don't have anything?
THE COURT: Yeah.
MR. PAIZES: Your Honor, if I may. I have
three cases here so maybe we can do that at a
special hearing because it's going to take --
THE COURT: Okay. So we're going to go
ahead and recess the -- I haven't really, I mean
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essentially opened it, but let's go ahead and
recess for, let's say, two hours. Is that okay?
MR. AYERS: We can hear other cases, that's
fine. The two cases that he has right here are
the same homeowner, so they'll be one right
after another. They have the same exhibits.
THE COURT: Okay. So let's say until noon,
okay, let's say until noon so I can get through
some of these other cases and get some people
out of here and then come back to it. Okay?
All right, so let's do that.
MR. PAIZES: Am I to understand that I can
leave and come back at noon?
THE COURT: Leave until noon, yes, until 12
o'clock.
MR. PAIZES: Is there a lunch break for you
guys or --
THE COURT: There's not going to be -- I
have to be out of here by 1 o'clock. I have
something I have to do this afternoon, and so I
will not be able to be here beyond one. If we
are -- we still have issues in cases, then we'll
need to address that at that time.
MR. PAIZES: Okay. Thank you.
(Break in proceeding)
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*** CASE CC-17-3606(A)
THE COURT: So it now is 11:52. Does
anybody need a five-minute break before we start
with this case?
SPEAKER: No, ma'am.
THE COURT: So let's bring the respondents
back in the room if they're here.
So we are going to handle CC-17-3606(A),
Sarasota County vs. Spiro Paizes first, which is
a citation appeal from a citation issued on
August 29, 2017. So we'll allow the respondent
to go first since it's his request.
MR. PAIZES: Good afternoon again. I have
a --
THE COURT: Go ahead and state your name
for the record --
MR. PAIZES: Oh, I'm sorry.
THE COURT: -- please, and that you've been
sworn.
MR. PAIZES: My name is Spiro Paizes. I'm
a state certified building contractor, State of
Florida certified air conditioning contractor,
and a State of Florida licensed and certified
unlimited roofing contractor.
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THE COURT: And you have been sworn?
MR. PAIZES: Yes, I've been sworn.
THE COURT: Thank you.
MR. PAIZES: I've been trained in
investigative techniques by Citizens Insurance
and schooled in structural aspects of my
profession. Every Monday for the -- this is
going to take a little while. Do you mind if I
go through my opening statement?
THE COURT: Whatever you want to do, it's
your time.
MR. PAIZES: Okay. Every Monday morning
for the past four years I get a report on all
the code cases for the previous week. I've been
helping property owners for many years
throughout the state of Florida and advising in
other states including Texas, North Carolina,
and Georgia.
I advertise my 116 websites including
codeenforcementcases.com,
stopworkordercases.com, and
workwithoutpermits.com, and other internet
advertising, and I have two other websites that
are not up and running yet, but
sarasotacodecorruption.com and
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codeenforcementcorruption.com.
I'm college educated, and I've studied many
subjects, including law, at the Johannesburg
University in Johannesburg, South Africa.
Although I am South African born, I am a
United States citizen of America, and I carry a
valid United States passport.
When I lived in South Africa during
apartheid, I've seen many atrocities, some of
those I can't wash out of my head. I've always
stepped into situations that were unfair, where
times my life was in serious peril but my
conscious wouldn't let it go.
I've stepped in when my black workers I had
working for me (unintelligible) taken and four
white assailants decided to steal their items,
fortunately my training afforded me an
advantage.
My family's home is two streets over from
President Nelson Mandela. This will all come to
light in just a moment.
My father, who is South African, always
told me don't buck the system, if you do, you'll
have a target on your back forever.
I've worked as the designating and final
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ruling authority between various law firms here
in Sarasota and other areas to resolve various
construction disputes including the legalities
and specifics of the Florida Building Code.
I've also reported many illegal, unsafe
structures and unlicensed workers to the
unlicensed task force not only here in Sarasota
but elsewhere.
I have current cases that I'm representing
with property owners in many counties in Florida
including the City of Sarasota, Polk County, Lee
County, the City of Anna Maria, Longboat, Holmes
Beach, DeSoto County, Collier County, Sarasota
County, Charlotte County, City of Bradenton, et
cetera, et cetera.
I'm coined as a problem solver and a code
enforcement specialist. I currently have I
think three or four cases in Sarasota County
where I believe Harvey Ayers is one of the code
enforcement officers.
I've never overlooked or necessarily
believed what property owners have said but
rather the job dictates what needs to be done
and when necessary and what needs to be
uncovered to keep the county building department
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and the potential new homeowner safe with
regards to their building code.
I've always been a proponent and an
advocate for code enforcement. I've worked with
code enforcement until this group here decided
to go rogue. They swarmed on my job sites and
hunted me down by going to each of my job sites
in what is a political favor motivated scheme to
ruin my business which was followed by extortion
of my private banking account, threats, and
misquoting the Florida -- the laws of Florida.
I was extorted by Mr. Guy McCauley that if
I did not give him private banking information
he would shut all my jobs down. I told
Mr. McCauley, "You have no right to do that.
That's private information."
He said to me, "If you don't give it to me,
I'm going to shut you down."
I said, "It's unfair. You have no probable
cause."
He said, "If you don't give it to me, I'll
get it from the IRS."
I made a comment to Mr. McCauley, "That's
extortion. The IRS won't give it to you."
"Well, we've got ways of getting it from
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the IRS." So he said, "Either you're going to
give me how you pay this guy or I'm shutting you
down." So on the coercion and his extortion, I
went ahead and handed it over.
I did report it to the FBI, the FBI
investigator that I met at the Sarasota County
Sheriff's Office, and I also reported it to an
IRS investigator.
Today is not necessarily about these false
accusations, it's about exposing the corrupt
government that we have here.
MR. BOSSARD: Objection, Your Honor. The
point of this is to address a citation that was
issued, it's not a point to have a political
discussion about policy and procedure. It's
about the citation and its validity.
MR. PAIZES: It moves to various motives.
THE COURT: I'm going to give you latitude,
but again --
MR. PAIZES: Okay.
THE COURT: -- we're not going to use this
forum as a platform to discuss all kinds of
other issues. You know, you see the amount of
cases I have. This -- we need to stick to the
fact today.
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MR. PAIZES: Okay. We have three cases
today and they will probably exceed -- and I
don't -- I don't want to give myself an
unfair -- or give the County a fair advantage by
rushing, unfortunately.
THE COURT: No one's rushing you.
MR. PAIZES: Okay.
THE COURT: But we're going to stick to
what's relevant.
MR. PAIZES: Okay.
THE COURT: And, you know, what -- like I
said, we're going to stick with relevant. If
it's not relevant, then it's not going to --
we're not going to take the time to discuss it.
MR. PAIZES: Okay. One last comment on
that. The last time I was at a hearing
Mr. Harvey Ayers here was behind me laughing,
and I found it unprofessional and completely
rude.
THE COURT: Again, that's not relevant.
Let's stick to the facts. We're not going to do
this, like I said. I -- I'm giving you
latitude.
MR. PAIZES: Okay.
THE COURT: I'm giving you time that you
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never specifically requested under the code. MR. PAIZES: Okay.
THE COURT: So while I'm giving you latitude, I'm expecting you to follow my rules.
MR. PAIZES: Fair enough.
THE COURT: So let's please not get distracted by things that don't matter. Okay?
MR. PAIZES: Is it appropriate if I ask the certifications of Mr. Ayers who is the -- their star witness?
THE COURT: You've
questions regarding his
absolutely may do so so
MR. PAIZES: Okay.
got to ask him specific
qualifications, you
long as it's relevant.
THE COURT: But we're not going to talk about what somebody did behind you and if they laughed at you, that's not relevant to this case. Okay?
HARVEY AYERS called as a witness, being previously sworn/affirmed, was
examined and testified as follows: EXAMINATION
BY MR. PAIZES: Q Okay. Mr. Harvey Ayers, what are your
credentials as a representative of Sarasota County?
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THE COURT: Mr. Ayers, first of all, let's state your name for the record again and if you've been sworn.
MR. AYERS: Yes, ma'am. My name is Harvey Ayers. I'm a building investigator with Sarasota County and I've been sworn.
THE COURT: Thank you. A To answer your question, I've been an employee
of Sarasota County since 2000 and -- I don't know the exact date.
SPEAKER: '14. A Yep. Since October the 2nd, 2014.
I was employed as a code enforcement officer with Sarasota County, and for the last year and a half I've been assigned to the building division as a building investigator.
I hold at this time three levels of Florida Association Code Enforcement officer certifications, Level I, II, and IV, and I've taken other various courses related to code enforcement within Sarasota County, and had interoffice training regarding building investigations and what requires permits and what does not. BY MR. PAIZES:
Q Again that answers the question, my question
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which is good. Thank you. Is your position a sworn position?
A It is not.
Q Not. Okay.
Do you believe you're a credible witness and an accurate representative of the Sarasota County Building Department Code Enforcement division?
A Yes, I do.
Q Who do you answer to at the building department?
A My direct supervisor is Robert Lepley, followed by deputy building official Guy McCauley and Kathy Croteau who is the building official.
Q Do you believe that your supervisors share your beliefs and are consistent in how you investigate and administer your job?
A Yes, I do.
Q Have you ever had any complaints made against you within Sarasota County for the job you now hold?
A Not to my knowledge.
Q Okay. Have you been -- you already answered that. I'm sorry.
Where did you work before you were a Sarasota County Code Enforcement employee?
SPEAKER: Relevance.
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THE COURT: Sustained. What's the relevance? What difference does it make where he --
MR. PAIZES: The relevance is I believe this witness here is -- I'm going to disqualify this witness.
THE COURT: Well, it's sustained. It's not relevant to --
MR. PAIZES: Okay. THE COURT: -- to this proceeding. MR. PAIZES: Okay. Well, that -- well,
that shoots -- that shoots my case. THE COURT: He's -- he's identified his
qualifications and what his job -- what his role is at Sarasota County.
MR. PAIZES: Okay.
THE COURT: He's identified his qualifications. It doesn't -- that's what -- he meets the qualifications under the job title he has. What he did prior to that is not relevant.
MR. PAIZES: Okay. I don't agree, Your Honor, but nevertheless you're the one in charge.
BY MR. PAIZES: Q Does the -- do you have police powers as a code
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enforcement employee?
A Yes, and it's not a sworn position.
MR. PAIZES: I don't know where to go from
here, Your Honor. I've got questions here and I
feel I'm being shut down on my questions. Let
me --
THE COURT: Is it relevant to the case --
MR. PAIZES: May I move to the building
code?
THE COURT: Excuse me?
MR. PAIZES: May I move to building code
questions?
THE COURT: Sure.
BY MR. PAIZES:
Q Okay. How would you identify a code
enforcement problem -- let me back up. Strike that.
What is the purpose of the building department
and your job as it pertains to any of these cases that
I'm here defending against?
A Well, to answer your question, my job as a
building investigator is to deal with unlicensed
contracting violations, unpermitted work, unfit, unsafe
structures within the county and anything related to
that. And directly toward your case you were cited for
aiding an unlicensed contractor.
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Q Okay. How would you identify an unfit and unsafe structure such as any of these other -- how would you identify an unsafe structure?
MR. BOSSARD: Objection. THE COURT: What's your objection? MR. BOSSARD: This is not about an unsafe
structure. This is about aiding and abetting. MR. PAIZES: Okay. All right. So we'll --
you know what, they're absolutely correct. I'm -- I'm -- I don't normally do these kind of things except when I'm representing a customer or a homeowner or building owner so you're absolutely correct. I'll move on.
BY MR. PAIZES: Q Okay. In this particular code violation
here -- I've got the citation in front of me here, okay, not that it's really going to matter today, but it's factually incorrect, not that that changes anything.
Because on the bottom of it there, the last line it says, "Perfect Choice Exteriors of Florida as an unlicensed contractor." So I don't know who that is.
A That would have been a typo on my part. We can strike that line --
Q If you want to make that as a -- as a -- that it is factually incorrect.
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We've already -- and I know this is a separate case, but it kind of relates to the other case that you believe that I aided and abetted an unlicensed contractor. Fortunately, I just got off the phone with the State of Florida in Tallahassee, and they've asked me to request a -- I forgot what it was called.
One investigator I spoke to in Tallahassee says that he doesn't believe that the -- that this is a valid citation. However, they are going to turn it to the state --
THE COURT: We're dealing with this one here. I don't -- it doesn't concern me what the state attorney thinks about this --
MR. PAIZES: Not state attorney, the attorney for the State of Florida licensing board.
THE COURT: Again, it doesn't -- I'm only concerned right now about this citation as it relates to the County ordinances, so.
MR. PAIZES: I deny this.
THE COURT: What the state has to say is not my concern today.
MR. PAIZES: Okay. Well, in the different case, what the state had to say was relevant.
THE COURT: It's not.
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MR. PAIZES: So is it not relevant today?
THE COURT: In a different case what the
State has -- I don't --
MR. PAIZES: In other words -- what James
Chitwood --
(Multiple voices)
MR. PAIZES: -- where James Chitwood is
mentioned in this particular citation here as
well, the state investigator was here. So they
took the testimony of the state investigator
regarding this -- regarding a case that --
THE COURT: What a state attorney is doing
with a case is --
MR. PAIZES: (Unintelligible).
THE COURT: -- is -- no, but that's what
you just told me, and then --
MR. PAIZES: No, state investigator.
THE COURT: No. What you asked me a minute
ago was about you wanted to tell me about what
an attorney for the state was doing. I don't
really -- that's not a concern of mine. Okay?
MR. PAIZES: Okay.
THE COURT: If a witness wants to come and
testify here, that's different.
MR. PAIZES: Okay. Well, I --
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THE COURT: (Unintelligible).
MR. PAIZES: I deny that this is -- that
this is a valid citation.
THE COURT: Okay. That's your -- that's
your opinion.
MR. PAIZES: Okay.
THE COURT: So we're going to go ahead and
work through it. Okay? So do you have any
other questions of Mr. Ayers?
MR. PAIZES: No, I -- no, I don't.
THE COURT: Okay. So you can continue on
with your appeal. What do you have to
substantiate that it's not valid?
MR. PAIZES: I believe that in this
particular case that I made the contact with the
homeowner, I sold the contract, I typed the
contract on my computer, I communicated directly
with the homeowner's son.
I said to the homeowner that I'm going to
send -- I was out of town. I said, "I'm going
to send someone over there. He'll sign the
contract on my behalf. Write the check out to
my company."
The individual went to the site there,
signed the contract on my behalf. We were -- I
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have an agency agreement with Mr. Chitwood which
allows him to do certain things including sign a
contract on my behalf. He doesn't do it on a
regular basis. It's the first time he's ever
done it and probably going to be the last.
The check came to me and was deposited.
The customer subsequently received a refund and
gave a -- signed an agreement to withdraw their
complaint which obviously -- that's that.
So I don't believe that I -- that I aided
and abetted an unlicensed contractor.
THE COURT: Okay. Is there anything else
you'd like to --
MR. PAIZES: No.
THE COURT: -- put forward at this time?
MR. PAIZES: No.
THE COURT: Mr. Ayers, do you want to bring
me up to date and summarize what has occurred?
MR. AYERS: Yes, ma'am.
Again, Harvey Ayers, Sarasota County
Building Department. I have been sworn.
Issued a citation to Spiro Paizes regarding
aiding an unlicensed contractor. It was issued
on August the 29th, 2017 regarding the property
at 4424 Meadow Creek Circle, Sarasota, Florida.
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This is an additional citation issued to
Mr. Spiro Paizes. Mr. James Chitwood was issued
the citation that was heard earlier regarding
unlicensed contracting.
Government Exhibit 1 for this case would be
related to entering the contract that was
presented to the homeowner, signed by
Mr. Chitwood.
THE COURT: Do you want to look at this or
are you okay with --
MR. PAIZES: No, I've seen that one.
THE COURT: -- document on its face?
Government Exhibit 1 is admitted.
(Government Exhibit 1 admitted.)
MR. AYERS: Government Exhibit 2 is a check
made out to Florida Home Improvement Services
from the homeowner.
MR. PAIZES: Yeah, that's fine.
THE COURT: Government Exhibit 2 is
admitted. Thanks.
(Government Exhibit 2 admitted.)
MR. AYERS: Government Exhibit 3 is a --
his is card for James Chitwood that was
presented to the homeowner at the time, and he's
an unlicensed contractor listing a license of
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Mr. Spiro.
THE COURT: Government Exhibit 3 is
admitted.
(Government Exhibit 3 admitted.)
MR. AYERS: Government Exhibit 4 is
Mr. Chitwood's -- that he is -- his business and
that he is workers' comp exempt to himself as an
employee, he's not employed by anybody.
THE COURT: Any objection?
MR. PAIZES: No.
THE COURT: Government Exhibit 4 is
admitted.
(Government Exhibit 4 admitted.)
MR. AYERS: Government Exhibit 5 is
workers' compensation showing that Mr. Spiro
Paizes is workers' comp exempt and has no
employees except for himself.
THE COURT: Government Exhibit 5 is
admitted.
(Government Exhibit 5 admitted.)
MR. AYERS: Government Exhibit 6 is showing
James Chitwood is not a licensed contractor in
the state of Florida from the Department of
Business and Professional Regulations.
THE COURT: Any objection?
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MR. PAIZES: No.
MR. AYERS: Government Exhibit 7 --
THE COURT: 6 is admitted.
(Government Exhibit 6 admitted.)
MR. AYERS: -- is from the Department of
Business and Professional Regulation for
Mr. Spiro Paizes showing that he is a licensed
building contractor, certified air conditioning
contractor, and roofing contractor.
THE COURT: Objection?
MR. PAIZES: No objections.
THE COURT: Government Exhibit 7 is
admitted.
(Government Exhibit 7 admitted.)
MR. AYERS: In summary, Your Honor,
Mr. Spiro Paizes is the license holder and
licensed contractor. He had a nonemployee,
whether you call him an agent or a
subcontractor, go out to this job, sign the
contracts, take the payments. That individual
is not a direct employee, is not allowed to do
that, and thus was unlicensed contracting.
And by Mr. Spiro sending him out there and
knowingly doing this, he was aiding and allowing
him -- to top that off, Mr. Chitwood purports
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himself with Mr. Spiro's license number, even on
his card, which confuses homeowners and stuff
that Mr. Chitwood is a licensed contractor. The
State would be asking that the citation be
upheld at the $2,000 fine.
MR. PAIZES: Objection.
THE COURT: There's no objection. You can
state your --
MR. PAIZES: The citation says $500.
MR. AYERS: Oh, I'm sorry. It's a 500 --
(Multiple voices)
MR. AYERS: That was my error.
THE COURT: Would you like to --
MR. AYERS: I would like to clarify. It's
a $500 citation for the aiding, not 2,000.
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. PAIZES: Question for Mr. Ayers.
Do you have a Florida Statute that states
what statute I violated by -- by having someone
sign a contract on my behalf?
MR. AYERS: The Florida Statute that
dictates or pertains to unlicensed contracting
is under Florida Statute 489, but we can provide
the dec statements and stuff that go on to --
MR. PAIZES: Well, if you don't mind, I'd
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like -- I'd like the exact statute because I
believe that's how our legal system works. That
a statute must specifically say that I aided and
abetted by, or at least allude to, that I aided
and abetted unlicensed contracting by having
someone sign a contract on behalf of a state
certified contractor.
Do you have the specific statute or not?
MR. AYERS: Under Sarasota County Building
Code 22-1261 and then Florida Statute 489.127
were the governing entities for those, to where
that falls under.
MR. PAIZES: Okay. I appreciate that.
You've given an overview of the statute. I'll
ask again, and forgive me for asking again, is
there a specific statute that coincides with
your statement that I aided and abetted an
unlicensed contractor by someone or -- doesn't
matter how it's worded, just for the matter of
again something broader here, that states that I
am not allowed to have someone sign a contract
on my behalf with my license numbers, they paid
me directly, et cetera?
The reason I say that is I've searched it
and I've had the State search it and -- the
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State of Florida that is, the construction
licensing board which I'm regulated by.
THE COURT: 8.
MR. PAIZES: And they can't seem to find
it. It may very well be that, I just -- I want
to make sure that we're all on the same page.
MR. AYERS: And we'll enter into this case
Government Exhibit 8 which is the dec statements
which falls under the unlicensed contracting and
was required for Mr. Chitwood.
MR. PAIZES: I've seen this here, but it's
very vague and it's not specific with regards to
saying about signing contracts, and there's
nothing in the Florida Statute that specifically
states that I violated the law.
THE COURT: Do you have any objection to
these declaratory statements coming in?
MR. PAIZES: I believe they're irrelevant.
This declaratory statement here, which I've
reviewed, is irrelevant.
THE COURT: Okay. So you're objecting?
MR. PAIZES: I'm objecting, yes.
THE COURT: Your objection is overruled.
It goes to the weight of the evidence.
MR. AYERS: Under the Florida Statutes --
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THE COURT: As far as relevancy is
concerned. Go ahead. What?
MR. AYERS: Under the Florida Statutes,
understand Mr. Chitwood, which he's the
unlicensed contractor, you, by allowing him as
not a direct employee of yours to sign
contracts, that's where the aiding to is
unlicensed.
So the statute pertains to the unlicensed
contracting under 489.127. You aided that by
allowing him to sign contracts as a nonemployee
and present himself as an employee of yours.
MR. PAIZES: Okay. On the one side, I did
not allow him as such, and maybe this is a play
on words, I directed him to --
THE COURT: But he's not your employee.
MR. PAIZES: I directed him to do a task on
my behalf.
THE COURT: He's not your employee.
MR. PAIZES: I still don't believe that
there's a statute.
THE COURT: That's like saying you can go
out on the road and pick anybody and tell them
to go give them a business card with your
purporting to suggest that you're licensed and
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credible by handing somebody a business card
with your name on it and somebody else's
licensure numbers and represent that you're
qualified.
MR. PAIZES: Mr. Chitwood actually is
now -- is employed now. At the time of this
incident he was not directly employed, but
nevertheless that's neither here nor there.
THE COURT: That's (unintelligible) for
you, but at the time he wasn't, so.
MR. PAIZES: Just for the record, I again
say that I don't believe that this is
statutorily correct.
THE COURT: Okay. The conclusions of law
in this declaratory statement simply suggests
that construction management cannot be performed
by an unlicensed individual or entity.
MR. PAIZES: I -- I agree with the
declaratory statement, but he was not doing
construction management.
THE COURT: I think his title was site
supervisor. That would suggest to me that that
would be a management position. Supervising,
that's managing. I think that's pretty much one
in the same.
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MR. PAIZES: When I send -- when I send
Mr. Chitwood on a contract basis to go and
review a job site or whatever the task I have,
it's not working as -- well, I guess technically
speaking it is working.
But I say go take some pictures, go buy
this and set -- him and I have a set price on
each and every task or whatever it is that he
does. He's not an hourly employee.
THE COURT: But your -- he's representing
himself as someone that he's not. He's
representing someone that he's not. That's the
reality.
So you've allowed him to do that. You've
allowed him to use your licensure numbers and
you've allowed him to use your company name with
some title that really is misrepresentative of
the truth.
MR. PAIZES: Well, --
THE COURT: So --
MR. PAIZES: -- when it came to the
contractual issues, the contract was between my
company and the homeowner, I didn't deny that.
MR. BOSSARD: Except the contract --
MR. PAIZES: Never is --
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MR. BOSSARD: -- (unintelligible)
Mr. Chitwood.
MR. PAIZES: In other words, typical
unlicensed contracting, this is not the typical
unlicensed contracting type of violation.
Unlicensed contracting is Mr. Chitwood
would go there and say, hey, I'm the contractor,
here's my invoice, you pay me. That's
unlicensed contracting.
THE COURT: No, it's not, not when he
used -- he hands his business card to someone
saying he's a superintendent essentially is
what --
MR. BOSSARD: A site supervisor of his
company.
THE COURT: Exactly, is a superintendent of
a company with numbers that would suggest that
he's licensed, absolutely not. That --
that's --
MR. BOSSARD: He's --
THE COURT: -- misrepresentative.
MR. BOSSARD: He is the individual who
signed the contract.
THE COURT: That's exactly what the laws
are there to do to protect against.
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MR. PAIZES: Okay. I disagree, but
nevertheless.
THE COURT: Disagree (unintelligible).
Okay. Does anybody else have anything else
they'd like to add in this case before I rule?
Case CC-17-3606(A), Sarasota County vs.
Spiro Paizes doing business as Florida Home
Improvement Services, Inc., I find that the
appeal of Citation 17-3606(A) is valid where the
respondent was involved in an incident on a
property located at 4424 Meadow Creek Circle,
Sarasota, Florida, the property identification
number 0071070037, where he aided and abetted an
unlicensed contractor to represent his company,
write and enter into a contract, and accept
payment for work that requires permits and
licensing as a contractor.
Therefore I'm ordering that the respondent
pay the civil penalty of $500 -- this is wrong
right here -- $500 plus a $10 recording fee.
Interest shall accrue at a rate of 5.35 per
annum, and the funds shall operate as a lien on
all personal and real property owned by the
respondent.
I've got to reprint that. Okay. Okay.
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CASE CC-17-3690
Okay. So the next case is Case CC-17-3690,
Sarasota County vs. Spiro Paizes. And this also
is an appeal of a citation from September 1st,
2017 for property located at 3815 Shade Avenue.
Go ahead, Mr. Paizes. State your name for
the record again, please.
MR. PAIZES: My name is Spiro Paizes. I'm
a certified building contractor, certified air
conditioning contractor, certified roofing
contractor with the state of Florida.
THE COURT: And you've been sworn?
MR. PAIZES: Oh, I've been sworn. Sorry.
THE COURT: Thank you. Thank you.
MR. PAIZES: Forgive me. Oh, I'm sorry.
THE COURT: We're waiting on you. It's
your appeal.
MR. PAIZES: My apologies. I was waiting
to hear something.
Okay. In this particular case here, the --
Sarasota County has made a comment, or sorry,
has given me a citation. It's a hundred dollar
citation that says, "On an air conditioning
permit was completed and exceeded the scope of
work as it required electrical lines and outlets
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when moving to a new location. The work was
done by the contractor who is not a licensed
electric contractor and exceeded the scope of
his license."
I do admit that I did do the electrical
whip to connect an air conditioner on the left
rear of the house which is permitted under the
Florida Statutes and my license.
THE COURT: So what's the issue? Somebody
help me --
MR. PAIZES: I have no -- I have no idea.
MR. AYERS: Let me start, ma'am.
Harvey Ayers, Sarasota County Building
Department. I've been sworn.
There are two citations. We're dealing
with CC-17-3690, they're related to the same
property under the same contract basically.
The -- Mr. Spiro Paizes obtained two
permits, one for a reroof and one for an air
conditioner change out. We're here -- this
first citation, 3690, is related to the roof
permit and opening up of a skylight in that
permit.
In that case, Spiro Paizes contracted with
the homeowner to do a reroof, obtain the permit.
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No problem. He exceeded the scope of his
permit, did unpermitted work or had unpermitted
work done there at the property by opening up a
skylight and created that; that would have
needed plans, cut trusses; that would have had
to have been amended in the permit due to the
fact that he did not do that, and he completed
it, and the work was completed.
THE COURT: So this permit was for what?
What was the --
MR. AYERS: For a reroof.
THE COURT: Just a --
MR. AYERS: It's a standard reroof, over
the counter --
THE COURT: -- skylight.
MR. AYERS: -- no -- no plans review or
anything.
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. AYERS: They did the roof and put a
skylight in. The skylight needed an amended
permit, did that without that, didn't get a
permit for that, thus he was issued a citation
for doing unpermitted work, first offense.
Under Florida Building Code Sarasota County
109.4, work commencing before a permit, "Any
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person who commences in any work on a building,
structure, electrical, gas, mechanical, plumbing
system before obtaining the necessary permits
shall be subject to a fee established by the
building official and shall be in addition to
the required permits."
And here we are. He was issued a citation.
The work was completed. The homeowner --
THE COURT: After-the-fact permit filed for
or --
MR. AYERS: Not yet at this time, no. And
maybe we can just go through this. You'll have
all the information.
Government Exhibit 1 will be the contract.
MR. PAIZES: Can I interrupt real quick?
He's got the wrong case. I thought we were
dealing with Case Number ending in 3690.
THE COURT: We are. We are.
MR. AYERS: 3690(A).
MR. PAIZES: Okay. Okay. Is it (A) or is
it 90?
THE COURT: No, it's just 90 I think.
MR. PAIZES: Because there's two separate
cases here.
THE COURT: I opened just 90, correct?
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MR. PAIZES: I think Mr. Ayers has gone on
to a different case.
THE COURT: I opened just 390 [sic],
correct?
MR. AYERS: 90.
THE COURT: Yeah.
MR. AYERS: I'm on 90 -- 90(A) is going to
go for the air conditioner.
THE COURT: Okay. I have three -- I have
two different cases. I have a 3690 and then I
have a 3690(A).
SPEAKER: Yes.
THE COURT: So I'm on 3690.
MR. PAIZES: Right. I was referring to, as
the respondent, to 3690, and I think Mr. Ayers
went on to 3690(A). So he's -- there's a little
confusion here.
MR. AYERS: Okay. I apologize.
THE COURT: Okay. So why don't we --
MR. AYERS: We'll back up (unintelligible).
And as he already testified to the air
conditioner, there's two -- there's two issues
here with the permits.
THE COURT: Okay. Let's talk about the --
MR. AYERS: The air conditioning permit
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that he obtained was an over-the-counter permit
regarding an air conditioner. He is a certified
air condition contractor.
He obtained the permit, which is
(unintelligible), change out of an air
conditioner, same place, same location. He's
not a certified electrician. It would have
taken running electrical lines and outlets and
setting up there on the side of the house.
He moved the air conditioner from the roof
of the home to the ground. That would have
required a different permit for that work and
then also having a listed subcontractor that
would have been a licensed electrician in there
for the electrical work, because he is not.
THE COURT: Clearly, it's clear under the
code that he cannot rewire -- it's not just a
change out, a simple change out. It required --
any rewiring requires an electrician.
MR. AYERS: Correct, listed as a
subcontractor, yes.
THE COURT: -- licensed electrician.
MR. AYERS: So Government Exhibit 1 would
be the contract between Mr. Spiro Paizes and the
homeowner listing the roof work and the --
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listing everything in there to include the
skylight --
THE COURT: Any objection to Government
Exhibit 1?
MR. PAIZES: None.
MR. AYERS: Government Exhibit 2 is
overhead photos of the property which we'll show
you.
MR. PAIZES: Which one are those?
MR. AYERS: Which will show you the air
conditioner on the top of a house.
MR. PAIZES: These are just aerials,
correct?
MR. AYERS: That is correct.
MR. PAIZES: No objection.
THE COURT: No objection. Government
Exhibit 2 is admitted.
(Government Exhibit 2 admitted.)
MR. AYERS: Government Exhibit 3 is
composite photographs showing the work done at
the home, shows the air conditioner on the side
of the home, the electrical lines, an outlet box
that was installed and ran into.
MR. PAIZES: May I?
No objection although one of those I really
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can't make out, but that's okay.
THE COURT: Government Composite Exhibit 3
is admitted without objection. Thanks.
(Government Exhibit 3 admitted.)
MR. AYERS: Your Honor, as a licensed
contract holder and the person that pulled the
permits, he is responsible, ultimately, for the
work that was done at the property.
The permits were incorrect. They were not
amended. The work was done and exceeded the
scope of that and the scope of his licensing.
He was issued a citation for the first
offense for the air conditioner of a hundred
dollar fine. We would ask that that citation be
upheld.
THE COURT: Okay. So these -- this is a
composite that's got everything?
MR. AYERS: It has the skylight, the roof,
it has everything in there because it was all
taken together.
THE COURT: All right. So I'm just right
now focusing on the AC though?
MR. AYERS: Yes, ma'am.
THE COURT: Mr. Paizes, do you have any
response to Mr. Ayers --
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MR. PAIZES: Yes, the Florida Statute does
allow a -- it specifically states under the
licensing, under Class B, air conditioning
contractor; that a Class B air conditioning
contractor is permitted to replace, disconnect,
and reconnect power wiring on the load side of
the dedicated electrical disconnect switch.
THE COURT: Well, it says switching out,
like I said earlier, reconnecting but not
rewiring.
MR. PAIZES: Correct. I did not run the
wiring there and I have a -- I have a long list
here of other things that were done on the
property by unlicensed persons. I have
documentation that I warned the owner, and I've
got pictures here.
THE COURT: If you reconnected it, it's in
a different location, so why did you --
MR. PAIZES: No, there was a -- there was
what's called an R22 unit there that someone had
attempted to put in. The air handler inside the
house went where an existing air handler was.
THE COURT: Mr. Ayers, I'm so -- somebody
needs to help me because he's --
MR. AYERS: We're going to have --
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SPEAKER: Testify.
SPEAKER: I'm going to (unintelligible)
that right now.
MR. PAIZES: Okay. An R22 unit is an older
refrigerant, older type of refrigerant. This
particular job site had a massive amount of work
which is the reason I terminated -- well, I
didn't technically terminate the contract, but I
issued a contract of stop work, and I left the
job because there was Hispanic males there doing
work, and I warned the owner, I warned the
owner, I warned the owner, and I said I'm done.
And I have a long list of things that were
done there and I have photographs that were done
there.
THE COURT: In your own contract, you have
new HVAC unit shall be -- have new electrical
wires run with disconnects, so.
MR. PAIZES: Correct. The owner did a
massive amount of electrical work, and to my
understanding, had a licensed electrician or
some --
THE COURT: Again, this is your contract.
MR. PAIZES: Right.
THE COURT: Enumerated in your contract
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what the scope of services is, and you -- it's
clearly listed, "New HVAC unit shall have new
electrical wires run with disconnects." That's
in your scope of services that you are going to
do.
MR. PAIZES: Right. And I did not do that
electrical work. I didn't do the stove wire. I
didn't do the wiring to the washer/dryer. I
didn't do any of that other wiring. That was
done by someone other than myself.
The job site has a massive amount of -- of
code violations which I believe that Sarasota
County has completely ignored and tried to
nitpick on a couple of minor items with me.
THE COURT: Mr. McCauley, can I hear from
you? Can you fill in the blanks for me, please.
MR. McCAULEY: Guy McCauley, Sarasota
County, and I have been sworn.
Okay. The permit that was applied for and
issued was an express permit for an AC change
out of a split system.
The existing system was a package unit
which sat on the roof, therefore with the new
system you have -- it's split, half of it's
inside, half of it's outside. The outside
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portion and the inside portion were brand new,
and you have electric going to both.
So the -- there was a new disconnect
mounted and hooked up to the air conditioner on
the outside portion which had to be wired.
THE COURT: Understood. And that's why I'm
saying --
MR. McCAULEY: And that's what his contract
says, that's correct.
THE COURT: -- yeah, so the contract says
that. So I don't understand how it's -- he
contracts for that, but he's saying he didn't do
the work, so I'm -- he's accepted payment for
the work.
MR. McCAULEY: And where the handler is now
sitting, that, from what I understand, you can
confirm this with the property owner, that used
to be a chimney. Because if you also look at
his contract it says something about removing
the chimney and patching the roof. There was a
furnace there.
THE COURT: (Unintelligible) to be
installed on stand at new location with central
return. A drain line --
MR. McCAULEY: That permit that he applied
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for should not have been an express permit. It
should have been either a BR, building repair,
or a BI permit which would allow them to put an
electrical sub attached to the permit.
THE COURT: I don't see the part about the
furnace. You know, in the notes, also, in this
agreement it says, "All work to be performed by
a contractor to be in compliance with local,
state, and Florida building code."
MR. PAIZES: Correct.
THE COURT: So your contractor. So again,
all work that's identified in this says -- it
says it's going to be perform -- be performed by
you.
MR. PAIZES: Correct. That particular
property has about 75 violations. Mr. -- may I
ask Mr. McCauley a couple of questions?
THE COURT: Sure.
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. PAIZES:
Q Did you physically go out to the job site,
Mr. McCauley?
A I've been there a few times.
Q Okay. Did you see since -- I know that you're
a plans examiner and you've got a nice long career and
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you're an intelligent human being, you're a plans
examiner, inspector, code -- I don't know what you call
it -- but a code official, et cetera.
When you went to this particular job site in
order to ascertain whether I did or didn't do any work,
did you notice any other violations on this particular
job site or --
MR. BOSSARD: Objection. Not relevant to
whether this violation occurred.
MR. PAIZES: I -- I --
THE COURT: We're only talking -- it's --
any other enforcement of any other issues is not
a defense or an issue that is --
MR. PAIZES: I pulled --
THE COURT: -- in a code enforcement case.
MR. PAIZES: I pulled off of this job
because there was a massive amount of illegal
work, including electrical work on that job that
I did not do.
THE COURT: And again, I'm not worried
about that. I'm worried about what you've
identified in your --
MR. PAIZES: I did not do that.
THE COURT: -- in your scope of services --
but it's identified in your scope of services,
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and you specifically say in here, "That all work
to be performed by contractor," meaning you, "to
be in compliance with local, state, and State of
Florida building code."
So you -- you said in here -- it's very
detailed, --
MR. PAIZES: Right.
THE COURT: -- the scope of services, and
you said you were going to do the work.
MR. PAIZES: Right.
THE COURT: So --
MR. PAIZES: And then -- and when the
customer had illegal people working there --
THE COURT: But that's not in -- you are
responsible for this work. Whatever anyone else
illegally was doing is not my issue.
My issue is the scope of services that
you've outlined here, which is exactly what Mr.
McCauley is talking about, was not done by you
even though it says in this contract it was
supposed to be done by you, right?
MR. PAIZES: Correct. It was not done by
me.
THE COURT: And you said it was supposed to
be done under this agreement?
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MR. PAIZES: Right.
THE COURT: So you're in violation. You
didn't do the work, somebody else, and you don't
even know who did the work -- did it so you say.
MR. PAIZES: So --
THE COURT: But you're responsible. You
signed the contract and you're responsible for
that work.
MR. PAIZES: Okay. If I may, this
particular job -- bear with me for a moment --
has 85 other violations.
THE COURT: It doesn't matter.
MR. PAIZES: It does matter --
THE COURT: We're only talking about this
work and who did this work. You said you were
going to do this work. You were issued a permit
saying that you were going to do this work and
it didn't occur.
MR. PAIZES: So now the -- now the County
can come back and say there's 85 other -- other
things on that --
THE COURT: Selective --
MR. PAIZES: I didn't do the work.
THE COURT: Selective enforcement is not a
defense to code enforcement. Black Letter Law.
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I don't care what other violations were going on
right now. My concern is this right now.
That's what I'm focusing on.
MR. PAIZES: I did not do that work.
THE COURT: Okay. Then the -- then the
violation -- the citation stands then if you
didn't do it. You were supposed to do it.
You identified it, you said you were going
to do it, you wrote it in the contract you were
going to do it, you pulled the permit based on
the fact that you said you were -- you were
responsible for that work and it didn't occur.
I mean, what -- what don't you under --
what don't you --
MR. PAIZES: What I don't understand is
just because it says something in the contract
doesn't mean I did the work. If I -- if I have
a contractor build somebody a house, I include
electrical in that work. I include electrical,
plumbing, everything in the contract to build --
THE COURT: Right.
MR. PAIZES: -- them -- build a house.
THE COURT: And you're responsible,
ultimately, for that sub. You're responsible
with the contract. Between the homeowner and
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the contractor, you are ultimately responsible
for that work.
The homeowner doesn't have any privy of
contract to go after the subcontractor. That
homeowner has the contract with you, has the
contracting rights with you, not anybody else.
A homeowner can't go sue a subcontractor.
There's no privy of contract --
MR. PAIZES: They actually can.
THE COURT: -- there's no -- no, they
can't. There's no privy of contract.
MR. PAIZES: If they send them a notice to
owner they are.
THE COURT: There's no privy of contract
between the contractual rights between -- it's
between the contractor and the homeowner under
the contract.
So you said in here that you were doing
these things, that a permit was issued based on
this. You didn't do the work.
MR. PAIZES: Correct, I didn't do the work.
Nine months later here we are, nine months after
I left this particular project, after warning
the homeowner that they had illegal people
working there, and that the entire electrical
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system needed a licensed electrician to go
through the entire system.
THE COURT: Then why did you -- why did you
contract for it if you knew you couldn't do it?
MR. PAIZES: I was going to do it. And
then with the other electrical work when there
was unlicensed people working, they were ripping
everything apart and did that electrical work
along with the washer, the dryer, and a stove, I
pulled off the job.
I mean, I have 65 photographs of this job
site, but I don't think -- I don't think, you
know, anyone's interested in seeing all these
other violations in order to show why is -- and
I don't want to sound like a schoolboy, why
Sarasota County has decided to pick two minor
items when this entire house is a life/safety
issue.
THE COURT: Okay. So -- but the reality
was -- I'm going back to the fact that you said
you were going to do this work. You don't have
the licensing to do this work. So you either
had yourself or you had to have a licensed
subcontractor do the work when you agreed to do
the work.
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MR. PAIZES: I did -- I did not have --
THE COURT: You said there was no one else
involved --
MR. PAIZES: I did not have -- there was a
white van there that ran electrical work. I
don't know who it was. They ran electrical for
the washer, the dryer, and the air conditioner.
THE COURT: But again, you said you were
going to do the work. You didn't have the
licensing to do the work.
MR. PAIZES: The work was done by some --
someone that the homeowner hired.
THE COURT: You said you were going to do
the work. You said you were going to do the
work.
MR. PAIZES: I don't want to debate with
you. I just -- it's just -- it's just a matter
of I didn't do the work. Nine months later they
say I did the work. What the contract says, in
my opinion, is irrelevant as to whether there's
any -- lack of a better way to put it -- proof
that I did the work, I disagree.
I mean, if I did the work, I pay the
hundred dollar fine and out the door I go. But,
in my opinion, this is a much larger problem
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here.
MR. BOSSARD: Your Honor, if --
THE COURT: There's got to be recourse
against the contractor. That's the reality and
that's where the buck stops is against the
contractor.
MR. BOSSARD: Do you want to hear from the
homeowner, Your Honor?
THE COURT: It's -- I mean, it's not my --
if the homeowner wants to come up and --
MR. BOSSARD: I think it might be a --
we're dealing.
THE COURT: -- explain specifically what
the contractor said they were going to do and if
electrical was involved and that representation,
that certainly would be, you know, helpful to
hear.
Can you please state your name for the
record and whether you'd been sworn.
MS. RAMOS: Lucy Ramos and I have been
sworn.
THE COURT: Can you pull that mic a little
closer to you.
MS. RAMOS: My name is Lucy Ramos and I
have been sworn.
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THE COURT: Are you the homeowner? MS. RAMOS: I am. THE COURT: Okay. Go ahead, Scott.
LUCY RAMOS, called as a witness, being previously sworn/affirmed, was
examined and testified as follows: EXAMINATION
BY MR. BOSSARD: Q Ms. Ramos, you've heard some of the discussion
we've been having about this?
A Yes.
Q Do you recall entering into the contract -- A Yes. Q -- we're discussing? A Yes.
Q Do you remember the work being described, the electrical work that we're talking about?
A Yes. Q Do you remember who did that work? A James. Q James who? A Chitwood. He's the only one I saw on the
property doing the work, and the roofing as well. Somebody else by the name of Roger, just because I heard the name being called by James.
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Q How many people were at your property doing work?
A From July 24th, which is more or less when the contract I think was written, to August 22nd, James and -- there was another person. I don't know if at that time it was Roger, but the only person really I saw was James.
There were people coming in and out, and at one point I saw -- not knowing anything about construction I saw that my stove was removed and the electrical panel was taken out and attached to something else.
I actually called the County and said to inspect that because -- before that I was kind of afraid of contacting Sarasota County because Spiro had made threats to condemn my home, which I thought only a Sarasota County inspector can do. And he told me if I wanted to verify that to call inspector Hank and he'll tell them everything that they discussed.
So my husband and I discussed it, and we thought actually that Spiro and the Sarasota County inspectors were together on something not legal, and I was afraid to contact the County, so I made a complaint against the state or against his license.
When I called him about the stove situation, that was the only time I saw Spiro after signing the
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contract. He came up, he -- he looked at -- him and somebody by the name of George looked at the electrical thing that I was saying. Spiro went to the panel with James. James asked me if he can -- if it's okay if he can tear the wall open, and I said yes, I need to have this resolved.
So he pulled -- he tugged on a piece of wire. It kind of -- it looked to me like he was following where it went and left my -- my walls exposed. They all went outside, George, Spiro, and James and they left. My walls are exposed. There were rats coming in. I had to rent a place for my daughter.
And that's the last I heard of Spiro except for his letter on February 7th saying again, which my perception because probably I don't know much about construction, was him playing a role of an inspector, a Sarasota County inspector, saying the interior of the house has many life/safety problems, and you have been warned not to use unlicensed persons to the work -- to do the work including removal of interior walls.
I didn't do any of that. I didn't remove an interior wall. I didn't have anybody working there, and the electrical work or the -- basically the person that was there was by the name of Roberto, and he was going to do sheetrock which he couldn't do because the work was
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never completed and then he left. And Spiro continued saying interior walls
bearing or otherwise is not permitted without approved plans and must be done by qualified persons.
You know, to me, this -- this read like if it came from the County, and so I was very afraid to come forward to the County. When I did it's because I hired a contractor from Orlando thinking that Sarasota County was not ethical, so I hired my own contractor from Orlando to
come over
here to start working in the house. When he saw that there was a lot of damage quote that he gave me for -- and I do have two quotes from Orlando, it was very high, and the
done, the different house is still in disarray. We haven't worked on it --
THE COURT: Let me back you up and clarify a couple of points. I'll let you question but a couple of things.
Who was there when you signed this agreement? Who was there when you signed your contract?
THE WITNESS: I signed the contract, only Spiro was there.
THE COURT: It was only Spiro. And did he tell you specifically he was going to do the electrical work?
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THE WITNESS: He did. He -- he climbed up
on the roof, he inspected it for the longest
time. So when he -- when he told me that there
was a lot of things with the fascia and with all
the other stuff, I thought how did he not see
it, he was actually there.
Actually that's what -- you know, he talked
a good talk, a long time with us and saying
he's -- kind of the introduction he gave he's,
you know, the best there is out there and he
knows how to deal with these county inspectors.
He knows what he's doing. He's, you know --
and, you know --
THE COURT: So then from there did you have
anybody else that you engaged to do electrical
work --
THE WITNESS: Never.
THE COURT: -- outside?
THE WITNESS: No.
THE COURT: Okay. Go ahead, Mr. Bossard.
Anything else?
MR. BOSSARD: I don't have anything else,
Your Honor.
THE COURT: Do you have questions of this
witness?
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MR. PAIZES: Yes, I do. I have quite a few.
EXAMINATION
BY MR. PAIZES: Q Ms. Ramos, did you say you didn't have anybody
working on the house; is that correct? A I had Roberto who was going to be working on --
he was going to be working on sheetrock and he was going to build some -- I'm not familiar with the phrase, some little frames that the air conditioner ducts go in because you said that that wasn't part of the contract, so he was going to draw -- I mean, make these, build these after you told him exactly what you needed.
I sent a few texts and it was -- you never -- you never told him, you never informed him -- Roberto and another gentleman were going to be doing that -- that work and mowing the lawn.
Q Did you have someone there by the name of Ernesto Morales and --
A That's Roberto and Ernesto, yes.
Q Okay. Were you -- okay. Let me start from the top here. Okay?
You had Roberto or Ernesto working on your job site before I got there as well; am I correct?
A They -- the day -- no, no, you're not correct,
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no.
MR. PAIZES: Can I -- can I show her an e-mail here where -- if you'd like to look at that where it's highlighted there.
Would you like it, Your Honor? THE COURT: Well, let her look at it first. MR. PAIZES: Okay. THE WITNESS: Yes. THE COURT: Are you good? THE WITNESS: Yes. What -- what is the
question?
BY MR. PAIZES:
Q The e-mail that you sent to me, or at least from -- yeah, from you, you sent to me, it says, "We have been working this weekend on the house with our" and you used the terminology 'moochers,' M, double O, C-H-E-R-S, "and removed all the carpeting and false ceilings in an effort to get something done since we're so short on time."
Now, I'll ask you the same question I asked you previously, did you have people working on this particular property inside?
A Moochers is my word for my daughters, not my handymen. I don't call handymen moochers. Moochers is -- my two daughters and ourselves were removing the
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false ceilings which were little panels that were dangling because we, you and I, spoke about the -- the air conditioner ducts being very, very low, too low, and I removed them so you can see how much higher they can go, and you agreed that they needed to go much higher.
But during the whole scope of work you left them there. Those old, moldy ducts that are very low, you left them there.
So yes, my daughter and I were removing the false ceilings. No handymen, no other -- no Ernesto or Roberto were working there.
Q Okay. When you had asked me on July the 25th if you could use various -- those Hispanic gentlemen to do the work, I replied to you as, "I have a permit on the job and all workers must be covered by workers' compensation exemption form at the very least." remember that?
A I can -- I can read it here, yes.
Q On the next page it says -- you asked question there, and then I answer it by saying, structural repairs at the mansard roof area have to be done by a builder." Do you remember that?
A Yes. Q Okay. A I'm not sure what a structural repair at the
Do you
me a "The
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mansard roof area is. I can read what you're stating here, but I don't --
Q A Q
living in A
say,
the camper that's behind the house? They -- MR. BOSSARD: Irrelevant, Your Honor. THE COURT: What -- I was just about to what is the relevance of this?
MR. PAIZES: The rele- --
Okay. -- exactly -- Do you remember me making a phone call to you of better terminology, scolding you and telling
and, lack you that you've got these workers on my job site -- let me get the exact -- exact wording here. Forgive me for one moment, please.
Okay. Let me go on to another question. I'll come back to that one.
Was it two individuals that were at the house by the name of Roberto Hernandez and Ernesto Morales
THE COURT: Let's go back to what you were responsible for, what the permit was issued for that was under your responsibility, your obligation, and who did the work.
So you said you didn't do the work -- your --
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MR. PAIZES: It is my -- right.
THE COURT: You told her flat out the work had to be done by your people and they --
BY MR. PAIZES:
Q
bit of
second
Correct. And it's my contention that quite a work, including this particular citation and the citation was not done by me or anyone that I was
in control of, et cetera. And if you -- if I show -- if I show you the
photographs that we have here of the massive amount of electrical work that someone other than myself did, it essentially helps my case.
And then on January the 23rd, 2017, after I had warned the homeowner several times that you cannot have unlicensed people working on a job site, I posted what's called a contractor's stop work on the door and I departed.
A We entered into this contract in July 25th, and he departed February 7th of 2017. That's when he told me all this stuff that he's saying, that there were unlicensed work and all that. I mean, this is --
THE COURT: I'm going to -- again, the question was who did the -- did you hire anyone else --
THE WITNESS: I did not.
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THE COURT: -- electrical work?
THE WITNESS: The white van he says, I -- I
did not, no.
THE COURT: Okay. Did these two
individuals that he's discussing, what was the
scope of their work and did you engage them?
THE WITNESS: They were supposed to do the
dry wood because he said he would be finished.
I have an e-mail that says he would be finished
by Tuesday, August 22nd, so they were going to
be finished --
THE COURT: Did they do any electrical
work?
THE WITNESS: They did not do any
electrical work.
MR. PAIZES: These two particular
individuals did a massive amount of work and
gutted the house just as the -- this particular
property owner got five citations on the next
house by Sarasota County by using similar
people, which shows a consistency of not wanting
to follow the rules.
Although that may not be relevant here
today, and I'm sure you may object to what I'm
saying, there's a pattern of behavior here by
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this particular homeowner by hiring unlicensed
people to work on the job site that I was
responsible for and ultimately left because of
these unlicensed people that I could not be
involved with primarily because if the Division
of Workers' Compensation comes out, I get fined
and cited and then I get an audit.
Furthermore, if someone falls off a ladder,
et cetera, my insurance would be in question. I
did not do the --
THE COURT: Did you see anyone do
electrical work in your house? Did you witness
people doing electrical work?
THE WITNESS: I saw James looking at the
panel. I don't know if he pulled it. I don't
know if he changed anything. Because I live in
Orlando, the Orlando area, Altamonte Springs, so
I would come periodically, the only electrical
thing that I saw James do was tug on that line
and it led to somewhere -- it exposed the walls.
I did purchase the home in as-is condition,
so I don't know what work might have been done
before that.
But I do have an e-mail from -- from Spiro
from August 25th saying, "Good morning. We
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tried yesterday morning. I understand you are
upset, but does not preclude us from working
very hard. The AC should be done after lunch,
all new copper, electrical, et cetera."
So I thought he did the work.
MR. PAIZES: The electrical referred to in
that is the -- what's called the whip, as we've
already established that the electrical -- the
air conditioning contractor may connect that.
Your Honor, I have some photographs here
which I think might clear this up a little more.
THE COURT: Um --
MR. PAIZES: There's a lot of photographs,
but I can flip through them so we can get to the
relevant issues such as the electrical panel
that we just mentioned.
THE COURT: I guess I'm trying to make
sense of all of this right now and I'm trying to
bring it back to the issue before me which is --
the charge is he entered into a contract with
the homeowner to do construction work, move up
rooftop HVAC system to the ground, new roof, and
open and enlarge the skylight.
So that's -- I'm on this particular case.
He got an express permit to change out the
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unit. The work exceeded the scope of the permit
as required -- it required electrical lines and
outlets to be moved to a new location. The work
was done by a contractor who is not licensed and
that exceeded the scope of the license.
So, you know, I'm -- so he -- go ahead.
MR. AYERS: Maybe I can tie it back
together.
Spiro Paizes entered into a contract with
the homeowner --
THE COURT: Right.
MR. AYERS: -- for the air conditioner. He
pulled a basic permit for the air conditioner.
He then had, as evidenced from the homeowner,
James Chitwood who he was to do all the work,
come over and do the work.
He's testified that he moved the air
conditioner himself. He's already said that,
he's moved it, Spiro did. Regardless of who
moved it, he had the contract, did the work,
moved the air conditioner per the contract.
He's a licensed general contractor so we're
not going to charge him with unlicensed
contracting. He should have, by his proper way
of doing it, would to have had a subcontractor
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electrician and obtained the proper permit for
the air conditioner removal.
Because that's a violation of County
building codes, he was issued a citation of a
hundred dollars for this, for an offense, first
offense.
THE COURT: For doing work outside the
scope of the permit.
MR. AYERS: Without --
THE COURT: Just by definition by moving
the AC unit, even -- not even the electric --
let's just get away -- not withstanding the
electrical issues, just by moving, splitting the
AC unit, that in and of itself exceeded the
scope of the permit?
MR. AYERS: Correct.
THE COURT: Okay. And he's testified to
the fact that he has, in fact, split the unit
and moved the unit. It wasn't just a switch at
the same location?
MR. AYERS: Correct. Yes. So he's in
violation, and we would ask --
MR. PAIZES: Correction. There was an
older unit that someone appeared to have wanted
to connect and that's the one that had what's
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called an old -- you can still get the
refrigerant in North Carolina, but it's called
R22.
We don't use R22 refrigerant, but there was
an old air conditioning condenser that appears
that someone tried to connect that particular
unit.
THE COURT: But you say in your contract
multiple times you're removing and you're going
to install a new split HVAC. So that, by
definition, means parts inside and parts
outside.
MR. PAIZES: Well, it's a split unit,
correct.
THE COURT: Right.
MR. PAIZES: And the unit --
THE COURT: You're installing -- you're
installing a new system which requires
electrical, which requires all these things that
you've identified.
So just by definition of what you've
written in this contract, it exceeds the permit
that you pulled. So the permit doesn't match
the work that you were looking to do.
MR. PAIZES: Okay. May -- okay. I agree
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with that.
THE COURT: Well, that's the --
MR. PAIZES: Okay.
THE COURT: -- that's the scope of the
citation.
MR. PAIZES: But the job site there doesn't
match that contract neither because there was so
much illegal work. I have -- I have to --
THE COURT: Stop, stop, stop. The -- you
just -- I just identified -- finally we got to
the root of this -- what the issue is, and you
said you agree with that.
So that's the gist, that's the scope of
this particular case that I'm dealing with right
now, which is you said you were going to split a
unit, you said you did that, and that, by
definition, the permit that you pulled doesn't
match the work that's in this contract.
MR. PAIZES: Okay. Allow me to clarify
something. I didn't split the unit. The air
conditioner unit is referred to as a split unit.
THE COURT: It says --
MR. PAIZES: I put the air handler where
there was another air handler there previously
which already had -- or was some kind of --
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already had electrical run to it, and I changed
out the air conditioning condenser on the
exterior of the left rear of the house, took the
old unit and recycled it with Rob's Recycling up
in Bradenton.
THE COURT: Was the unit -- the unit before
the split, was it just a single unit?
MR. PAIZES: No. That unit was similar to
the one I put in there except it was probably a
15, 16 year old unit.
THE COURT: But it wasn't split?
MR. PAIZES: No, it's still a split unit.
A condenser is approximately -- let's just for
argument sake is 3 feet by 3 feet by about --
THE COURT: Is this work that you
identified as essentially just switching out one
unit for the other --
MR. PAIZES: Correct.
THE COURT: -- or does it require
additional work beyond just swapping out a unit?
MR. PAIZES: Not for what I contracted them
for.
THE COURT: Why did you say --
MR. PAIZES: Because I was going --
THE COURT: -- you needed (unintelligible)?
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MR. PAIZES: I was going to do quite a bit
of other work including some interior
remodeling --
THE COURT: No, we're not talking about
that. We're only talking about the HVAC. The
HVAC, you said all these things that needed to
be done like rewiring, air handler needed to be
installed on stand at new location.
So if it's on a stand at new location,
that's not just a swap-out.
MR. PAIZES: Well, because someone had put
an older unit there I refer to it as a new
location.
THE COURT: You know what, this is -- I've
heard enough. I'm ready to make my ruling.
This is -- you've admitted to it on the record
under oath. You agreed with the fact that the
citation -- that the permit was for simply
swapping out a unit, it was not for relocating,
any additional unit or adding an additional --
wiring or any other systems to that particular
unit, and therefore I'm finding that the
citation is valid.
Enough said.
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CASE CC-17-3690(A)
All right. We have one more case, and it's
sounds like we've handled most of it, but we
will now deal with this roofing issue.
So let me print this.
Okay. So do you have new additional
copies, Mr. Ayers, of -- are you going to be
admitting these same exhibits into evidence for
this case?
MR. AYERS: I'm sorry?
THE COURT: Are you going to admit these
same --
MR. AYERS: Same exact.
THE COURT: Okay. So do you have 1 through
7? Is it the exact same 1 through 7?
MR. AYERS: They are exactly the same.
THE COURT: Okay. So in the interest of
time, Mr. -- are these -- can we just enter
those seven exhibits without objection?
MR. PAIZES: No objection.
THE COURT: Okay. So Exhibits 1 through 7
are --
MR. AYERS: Actually there's less exhibits
here. I only have 1 through 3 that we can --
THE COURT: Just identify what they are.
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MR. AYERS: 1 is the contract, 2 is an
overhead, and 3 is the photographs.
THE COURT: Which is already an exhibit.
So Exhibits 1 through 3 are admitted without
objection.
(Government Exhibits 1, 2 and 3 admitted.)
THE COURT: Okay. So now we're just
dealing with the roof, correct, and the
skylight?
MR. AYERS: Yes, ma'am.
THE COURT: So let's go back now so we
don't get into all this other stuff.
The violation specifically says that the
permit that was pulled was for reroofing, it was
an express permit. There was no additional work
that was permitted under that permit.
MR. AYERS: That is correct, yes.
THE COURT: And again, I'll let you testify
that it's my understanding that a skylight
requires structural alterations and that a
regular permit would be required.
MR. AYERS: That is correct. It would
involve plans and drawings for that, yes.
THE COURT: For the skylight. Okay. All
right.
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So let me hear from the respondent on this.
MR. PAIZES: My name is Spiro Paizes. I'm
a state certified roofing contractor and I've
been sworn.
Before I got to this particular job site,
there was quite a bit of work that was already
done including cutting the ceiling, the rafters,
southern yellow pine, which is a structural
lumber.
A skylight does not require structural
engineering. I did put the skylight where there
was already a -- an area for it after someone,
other than myself, removed walls and removed
framing.
THE COURT: Is there -- Mr. Ayers, is there
anything -- is there -- can you point to
language in the code that would require a permit
for a skylight.
MR. AYERS: I can defer that to the
building official, the (unintelligible) for
that.
THE COURT: Could we, because that's
essentially the defense here is that it's not
required.
MR. McCAULEY: Guy McCauley, Sarasota
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County, and I've been sworn.
THE COURT: Could you please identify or
illustrate where you -- that requirement would
be driven.
MR. McCAULEY: On a reroof permit, you can
remove and replace a skylight in its existing
location. In this case there was not a skylight
there so it would -- and the roof rafters were
12 inches on center, and the skylights were set
for a 2 foot at your standard opening between
trusses.
Therefore the rafters were cut and a
bulkhead was put in. That's what would require
engineered drawings, not the skylight itself.
The skylight has a product approval that
addresses the fastening of the skylight to the
deck.
So what required a separate permit would
have been the altering of the roof rafters.
THE COURT: Do you have questions for this
witness?
MR. PAIZES: No, I think -- I think
Mr. McCauley is correct in his assessment of
what requires a permit.
I did not alter the trusses, or the rafters
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I should say, and I'll reiterate what I said in
the previous case, and I have photographs here
of all the work and people cutting -- these two
Hispanic males there have cut into this property
here.
That area in the ceiling there was above --
the area at the roof was above an area where
those illegal, undocumented, whatever we want to
call those workers, dismantled.
In other words, the job appeared to be
someone that tried to already do a significant
amount of work, just as in the previous case,
which is consistent, and I know maybe it's not
relevant here, and the next property, that the
same property owners that they completely gutted
the property and they received five citations.
What I find to be a little bit unfair in
these proceedings here, with all due respect, is
I've got a ton of evidence that points that
there were unlicensed illegal people working on
two of the properties that the property owner
has, and I don't -- with the exception of --
because I know you're a mediator that everyone
seems to be ignoring.
THE COURT: Again, it's not relevant here.
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I don't know if or who they're pursuing or who
is being investigated, that is not my -- there's
a reason for that. I'm only focused on this
case.
MR. PAIZES: I understand that.
THE COURT: I don't want to be focused on
other things right now. My focus is on this.
So for the same reason I don't want to hear
from you about others, you know, it's not --
it's not relevant to this case. I'm only
focused on --
MR. PAIZES: Okay.
THE COURT: -- the facts of this case.
MR. PAIZES: Okay. I did not alter the
trusses or any of the framing on that particular
property at all. I never did.
THE COURT: Then how is the skylight
installed if the -- if the rafters --
MR. McCAULEY: Who installed the skylight?
MR. PAIZES: I installed the skylight.
THE COURT: Could the skylight have been
installed without alteration of those trusses or
those rafters?
MR. McCAULEY: No.
MR. PAIZES: Okay. So may I ask a
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question.
THE COURT: Yeah.
GUY McCAULEY, called as a witness, being previously sworn/affirmed by the
clerk, was examined and testified as follows: EXAMINATION
BY MR. PAIZES: Q Mr. McCauley is a licensed general contractor.
If you would have put a skylight in the house, okay, and there's already a gap there, would you still have to go through the planning development services, the building department, plans examiner, structural engineer to have that area where the trusses are going to -- sorry, where the skylight is going to be installed to verify that those trusses meet the structural loads?
A It has nothing to do with the loads. The fact is there was no skylight there to begin with. You can't do that on a reroof permit.
Q Where does it say you can't put a skylight where there's an existing opening, where's there's rotted ply -- let me rephrase that.
Is a roofing contractor allowed to change out rotted plywood?
A Yes. Q How much -- how much plywood is a roofing
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contractor permitted to change out on a roof? In other words -- in other words, take off that plywood and put new plywood down, what percentage do you --
A I don't remember what the percentage is.
Q Okay. Okay. Is a licensed building contractor allowed to change out plywood on the roof?
A Absolutely.
Q Okay. So if I went to Ms. Wittmer's house or her husband, Steve, who I've worked for before, by the way, and they said, hey, I want to put a skylight right there in the roof there, and it's 24 on center, whatever it is, and I put a skylight in there, are you -- is it your contention that I have to go and get structural engineering in order to verify that the trusses handle or the rafters meet the existing loads or uplifts or whatever terminology we use?
A As I stated before, these rafters are 12 inches on center, they're not 24 inches on center, so therefore you would need a engineered drawing on how to bulkhead off on a flat roof the -- when a rafter is bearing from wall to wall and you cut the rafter out, you need -- you would need to have a method of repair for that rafter. That did not take place there.
MR. PAIZES: Okay. And I do agree with Mr. McCauley that that would be the procedure if
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the opening had not already been there. BY MR. PAIZES:
Q Now, in the carport there, I think they are 24 or 36 on center.
A This wasn't installed in the carport. This was installed --
Q No, no, I'm just saying that there was an existing opening there --
THE COURT: What do you need?
SPEAKER: A contract.
THE COURT: A contract?
MR. PAIZES: I'm not denying I put a
skylight in there. I did put a skylight in there.
THE COURT: I'm just trying -- the issue at hand is did that exceed the permit?
MR. PAIZES: In my opinion it did not because I did not alter or change the rafters whatsoever, nor did I do any of the other framing and illegal work that was done on that particular property which would --
THE COURT: I'm only focusing on the skylight. I'm only focusing on the skylight.
MR. PAIZES: I did -- I did not alter. I did not direct anyone to change or alter any of
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the trusses. If I had done that -- I have to
say Mr. McCauley is correct. I would have
demanded that I go to my structural engineer,
who was here this morning, I sent him away
because I figured we -- this might go longer
than expected, and I would have gone to my
engineer. We would have -- we would have --
THE COURT: Did the --
MR. PAIZES: -- changed it.
THE COURT: Did the homeowner witness the
skylight being installed?
MR. BOSSARD: (Unintelligible) now.
You heard what we were talking about just
now. Can you speak to --
THE COURT: State your name again, please,
for the record.
MS. RAMOS: Lucy Ramos and I'm the
homeowner.
EXAMINATION
BY MR. BOSSARD:
Q Can you speak to the condition of your roof
before the skylight was put in and after. Was there a
pre-existing opening?
A There was no pre-existing opening. There was
no skylight. We requested a skylight and we requested a
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new roof.
THE COURT: Was there any alteration to the
ceiling to the roof --
THE WITNESS: There was none.
THE COURT: -- to the respondent or the
respondent's representatives doing work?
THE WITNESS: No, there was none.
THE COURT: Did someone touch that area
other than the respondent or the respondent's
representatives?
THE WITNESS: No, they did not.
THE COURT: Do you have questions of this
witness?
MR. PAIZES: Yes, but I go back to the same
thing.
EXAMINATION
BY MR. PAIZES:
Q Who completely demolished the interior of that
home?
MR. BOSSARD: Irrelevant.
BY MR. PAIZES:
Q And.
MR. BOSSARD: We're talking about the roof.
BY MR. PAIZES:
Q And did the --
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THE COURT: We're talking about the
skylight.
BY MR. PAIZES:
Q And did the framing and the woodwork in that
area of the kitchen? Who did any and all of the work in
that area there?
THE COURT: We're only talking about the
sky- -- you know, object to the question if you
want.
MR. BOSSARD: I did. I did.
THE COURT: Sustained. I mean, the
question is who did -- ask her -- you can ask
her any question with respect to the skylight.
MR. PAIZES: Okay. The problem that I
have -- with all due respect, the problem that I
have is that the mitigating circumstances in
this case, which I'm being shot down on
everything here because I'm not -- I'm not an
attorney, okay, but I clearly have evidence in
any other court that would -- may be admissible
that proves that I did not do the -- this
massive amount of illegal work that's at this
property including the framing at the skylight.
THE COURT: Then ask her the question about
the skylight. That's what we're talking about.
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The permit is specifically for reroofing and the
charge is that you installed the skylight that
modified rafters --
MR. PAIZES: Okay.
THE COURT: -- that is in excess of the
express permit that the express permit
warranted.
MR. PAIZES: Okay. But my problem is that
I'm trying to respect your direction that it --
it relates to someone else must have done the
opening, the framing, and other things including
the sky- -- the framing of the skylight, not the
skylight, because I've admitted to doing the
skylight, the mitigating evidence that I have in
$200 worth of photographs right here clearly
shows and -- that I did not alter the trusses in
this particular case. They're called rafters,
and the -- if -- I don't want to try your
patience.
THE COURT: And it's not. It's your
testimony over the homeowners'. The homeowner
has specifically stated that no one touched that
area, that -- let's ask the question again.
Did you witness the skylight being
installed?
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MS. RAMOS: No. If the framework --
THE COURT: Do you recall when the skylight
was being installed? Do you recall that?
MS. RAMOS: I recall when it was finally
done.
THE COURT: I'm just saying do you -- do
you remem- -- do you recall when it was done?
Do you recall seeing that site prior to
installation?
MS. RAMOS: Yes, I saw the site prior to
installation.
THE COURT: How -- how -- at what point did
you see it prior to installation? Was it a
week? Was it a day? Was it a month?
THE WITNESS: Months, because I think there
was an exchange of texting, "You have still not
installed the skylight." I'm not sure what --
THE COURT: Like, did you see the -- at
what point did you see the property, the roof or
the ceiling, was it prior to installation? Was
it like a week before installation or was it a
month?
MS. RAMOS: I would see the property almost
every week, so whenever (unintelligible).
THE COURT: So you -- like within that week
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you --
MS. RAMOS: And so did my husband and so
did my daughter.
THE COURT: So you saw that it wasn't
installed and then it was installed?
MS. RAMOS: Correct.
THE COURT: Correct. Okay.
And then again, to your knowledge, you did
not witness anyone else working on that
skylight. Was there a hole in the ceiling?
MS. RAMOS: There was no hole and nobody
was working on the roof or the ceiling or the
skylight.
THE COURT: And the only person that was
working on that -- in that area doing that
particular task was the respondent, is that what
you're telling me?
MS. RAMOS: That's correct, and that's what
I believe I was paying him for. If I would have
made -- whatever the framing and all that stuff
is, why would I have somebody else do that and
have him come and put a skylight there, then the
job was already done by someone else. But I
didn't hire anyone nor did anybody volunteer to
walk into my house and just prepare that work
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for him.
THE COURT: So the testimony is that no one
else other than you touched that area? Your
testimony is you didn't touch the area?
MR. PAIZES: Okay. It's my -- it's my
testimony, and I might be beating a dead horse
here, that there was a massive amount of work
including the area at the skylight that was done
prior to me even getting on to that particular
job site.
THE COURT: She just said she saw the site
where the skylight was installed the week that
you installed it and there was no hole and then
the skylight was installed.
MR. PAIZES: Right, because --
THE COURT: How was the work done --
MR. PAIZES: Because -- because the roof
had a covering on it and there's -- there's
plywood there. So if any reasonable person
would look up, they would not see daylight as
such.
So when -- when the witness went to the
house, I have to assume she looked around and
said there's no skylight here.
The question I think in following your lead
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from earlier is, okay, there was no skylight and
then there was a skylight.
BY MR. PAIZES:
Q So the question for the witness is, did you see or have any knowledge whatsoever that I allegedly altered the rafters and/or the trusses, whatever terminology we want to use for laymen here?
A There was ceiling material there. There was not a plywood. I'm not an idiot. I can see if there was plywood hiding something there. I mean, that would be obvious.
If somebody had worked on it, it would look different from the rest of the ceiling in the house, and it didn't look different. No, no one else worked on that -- on that skylight but you.
Q Okay. What was the covering on the ceiling where the skylight is now? Was it drywall? Was it insulation? Was it plywood? Was it plank wood?
What type of a roof deck is -- did you see when you walked in and looked up where the skylight was before and after, what was the -- what did you see? Did you see white drywall, did you see paint, did you see plank wood, did you see plywood, or are you unsure?
A White painted something or other. I didn't check the material. I don't know what the material was.
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Q Okay. So is it fair to assume, if I may, that you may have been looking at drywall since it was white?
A All I know that no one worked on that area of the ceiling prior to you being there and working on it.
Q Well, again let me -- let me say the question. MR. PAIZES: I think we're almost finished
here, Your Honor.
BY MR. PAIZES:
Q When you looked up before the skylight was there, you've already testified that you saw something white; am I correct?
In other words, you didn't see plywood. So in other words, if there was drywall there, are you unsure of what was up in the ceiling there or are you sure that there was -- the rafters were, as Mr. McCauley said, 12 inches on center?
And I know that you're a layman so I'm not trying to trip you up. I'm just trying to ascertain here whether you, as a witness, and I have my witness I'm going to ask a question of here in a second, whether you witnessed that there was plywood there and/or the rafter prior to the skylight being in there, which -- which we'll ascertain whether the rafters were cut or whether they were not cut?
A I'm going to answer as a layman. If -- if
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there was a hole there that altered in any way this -- this structure here, I could tell you it was altered. I don't know what material it is. I don't know if it was altered in any way.
I would have been able to identify it, my husband would have been able to identify, and my daughter would have been able to identify it. I don't know the material. I just know that it was not altered in any way, just as this structure here is not altered.
And if somebody came in and hammered it, I can say it was altered in one way. I still cannot say what material I'm looking at, but I know what altered and not altered is.
THE COURT: You answered the question. Move on. MR. PAIZES: I did not alter the rafters at
any time.
THE COURT: All right. Do you have
anything else that you want -- do you have a question? Do you have anything else that you'd like to --
MR. PAIZES: I'd like to ask Mr. Chitwood because I've sent Mr. Chitwood -- give your name and say if you've been sworn or not.
MR. CHITWOOD: My name is James Chitwood
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and I've been sworn.
THE COURT: Go ahead, ask.
JAMES CHITWOOD called as a witness, being previously sworn/affirmed by the
clerk, was examined and testified as follows: EXAMINATION
BY MS. HIGH:
EXAMINATION
BY MR. PAIZES: Q So my question to Mr. Chitwood is, did you go
to this particular property at any time? A Yes.
THE COURT: Can you speak in the mic, please.
A Yes.
BY MR. PAIZES:
Q Did you observe -- I don't want to lead the witness.
THE COURT: You can -- you can lead your own witness.
BY MR. PAIZES: Q Okay. Did you witness any particular Hispanic
males at this property?
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A
Q people
Yes.
Did you witness and/or refer to me illegal working on this property including --
MR. BOSSARD: Object.
BY MR. PAIZES:
Q -- including any areas in the kitchen where the skylight are?
MR. BOSSARD: Objection.
THE COURT: Okay. Again, it's not
relevant. It's sustained.
MR. PAIZES: Well, Your Honor --
THE COURT: We're talking about the skylight. I don't want to know what they were doing in the kitchen. I don't want to know about anything else. We're talking about the skylight.
BY MR. PAIZES: Q When you looked -- Mr. Chitwood, when you
looked up, if you did, up in the kitchen there, what did you -- what did you see?
A The ceiling, the drywall.
Q What was behind the drywall? At any time were any rafters exposed for you to see?
A No. THE COURT: I don't quite understand where
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the -- why he's gone there.
SPEAKER: Exactly.
MS. RAMOS: I didn't either.
THE COURT: That was my point --
MS. RAMOS: I didn't either.
THE COURT: -- it was never --
MS. RAMOS: I didn't either.
(Multiple voices.)
MR. PAIZES: Right. So what I'm -- what
I'm saying is, is that --
THE COURT: You were the only person that
touched it.
MR. PAIZES: I put a skylight in. I did
not alter the rafters.
THE COURT: All right. Enough. I've heard
enough I think.
MR. AYERS: Your Honor, may I ask just one
question.
THE COURT: It's im- -- it's my -- all
right. Here, I have one question. Is it
possible to install this skylight without
altering the rafters? It's a yes or a no.
SPEAKER: No.
THE COURT: Could you say it into the
microphone, please.
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SPEAKER: No, it is not.
THE COURT: Thank you.
Okay. So it's my understanding that no one
else has touched the skylight other than the
respondent. It is impossible to install the
skylight without altering the rafters, therefore
the rafter -- the permit -- the express permit
for reroofing was limited to that being
reroofing, installation of a skylight that
requires alteration of the rafters, exceeds the
scope of an express permit. It required a
regular permit which would require drawing and
engineering involved.
Therefore I'm finding that the citation is
valid. The respondent is ordered to pay the
civil penalty of a hundred dollars plus a $10
recording fee.
And we're adjourned as of 1:30.
MR. AYERS: Thank you, Your Honor.
THE COURT: I'm sorry. Let me reprint it.
It's -- the citation is valid and the
respondent shall pay a civil penalty of $250
plus a $10 recording fee.
(Proceedings concluded.)
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REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE
STATE OF FLORIDA )
COUNTY OF SARASOTA )
I, LISA G. MOORE, Notary Public of the State of Florida, County of Sarasota, Twelfth Judicial Circuit Court-Approved, do hereby certify that the above-captioned proceeding took place at the time and place herein set out.
I further certify that the hearing was recorded
stenographically by me from the provided CD-ROM, and that
this transcript (pages 1 through 147) is a true record of
the recorded proceedings to the best of my ability.
I further certify that I am not of counsel to any
of the parties, nor an employee of counsel, nor related to
any of the parties, nor in any way interested in the outcome
of the action.
DATED this 5th day of December, 2017.
_______________________________________
LISA G. MOORE, CCR, Notary Public,
State of Florida at Large
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A A-I 12:24
a.m 1:23 abetted 70:3 73:11
78:4,5,17 84:13 abetting 69:7 ability 148:11 able 5:25 10:17
15:6 16:5 56:21
143:5,6,7
above-captioned
148:8 absolutely 6:24
64:13 69:9,13
83:18 132:7 abusive 45:4 AC 92:22 95:20
118:3 120:11,14 accept 10:15 84:15 accepted 10:21
96:13 account 61:10 accrue 84:21 accurate 66:6 accusation 25:18 accusations 62:10 accused 24:24 act 9:11 23:18
37:20 acting 19:24 33:14
33:15,18 37:24 action 148:13 actions 38:2 activities 29:16 actual 19:3
add 84:5 adding 124:20 addition 88:5 additional 6:16
8:19 74:1 123:20 124:20,20 125:6 126:15
address 27:1,14 35:23 56:23 62:13
addresses 128:16 adjourned 147:18 administer 66:16
administering 30:4 Administration 2:1 admissible 136:20 admit 17:13 86:5
125:11 admitted 23:7,9
51:24,25 52:16,17 53:4,5,23,24 74:13,14,20,21 75:3,4,12,13,19 75:20 76:3,4,13 76:14 91:17,18 92:3,4 124:16 126:4,6 137:13
admitting 125:8 advantage 59:18
63:4 advertise 58:19 advertising 58:23 advising 58:16 advocate 61:4 Aerial 4:19,24 aerials 91:12 affirm 5:13 afforded 59:17 afraid 107:13,22
109:6 Africa 59:4,8 African 59:5,22 After-the-fact 88:9 afternoon 56:20
57:14 agency 4:4 20:6,22
22:20 23:11 26:14 27:16 28:4 34:22 34:24 35:17 36:5 37:11,14 73:1
agent 21:5 23:11,12 23:23 24:15 28:7 28:13 33:15 34:17 35:18 46:10,25 49:2,11,12,13,24 50:7,8 54:2 76:18
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